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Home » RSD » RSD Posts » How dare you, Morgan Hibbert (A call for an official apology from Ultimate Canada and Morgan Hibbert)
How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #118994] Mon, 30 July 2012 15:16 Go to next message
smntstatus
Messages: 68
Registered: May 2011
Member
Morgan Hibbert,

In your interview with Match Diesel for Skyd Magazine, you mentioned that everything Sockeye does on the field annoys you, particularly their egregious calls.

Interesting.

Let's review Team Canada's performance against Japan in pool play of the World Ultimate and Guts Championship. Never have I seen such a blatant display of poor sportsmanship, dangerous play, and downright cheating as in this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxf-HYYEvP0&feature=playe r_embedded

Let's review:

4:55 - Andy Collins launches himself into the knees of the Japanese receiver on a disc he has no shot of defending.

11:15 - Andy Collins falls over after being bumped by a jukeing Japanese receiver, and proceeds to shove him while screaming in his face.

27:40 - A Japanese player trying not to run into Marc Seraglia's back puts his hands on Seraglia as he catches the goal. Seraglia whips around and spikes the disc inches from the defender's face and then screams at him.

33:35 - Morgan Hibbert catches a huck on the endzone line and then delivers a horrible backhand while dragging his pivot foot two feet into the endzone. He calls a foul on a defender that was nowhere near him. Hibbert proceeds to turn it over.

35:20 - Matt Doyle blatantly hacks the Japanese hucker after Adrian Yearwood launches himself into a pile of players going after an errant disc.

46:40 - Gabe Saunkeah lays out into the Japanese receiver's back and rides him out of bounds. He then gets upset that Team Japan isn't replacing the injured player fast enough.

47:35 - Gabe Saunkeah lays out into the back of the replacement receiver and brings him down.

47:55 - Morgan Hibbert lays out into the back of a Japanese receiver and tackles him to the ground.

50:35 - Nick Menzies lays out on an up-line cut and brings the receiver down.

104:20 - Gabe Saunkeah and Jeff Lindquist get really angry over a contested stall. Both players attempt to bully the Japanese thrower into reversing his call, and the Canadian sideline goes ballistic.

106:00 - Morgan Hibbert scores, and proceeds to bump into the Japanese defender, stare him down, and scream in his face.

108:00 - Thomas Kuhn drags his receiver down after a horizontal bid, and Alex Hughes dives into his receiver's knees on the very next throw.

115:10 - Nick Menzies is upset over a foul, and angrily barks at his defender.

120:39 - Hibbert blows off attempted hand slap from Japanese player.

Entire game - Team Canada is egregiously offsides on every pull.

Morgan, you are the captain of Furious George and the de facto captain of Team Canada. I call on the entire Ultimate Canada organization to issue an apology to Team Japan and for you to step down immediately as captain of Furious George and be removed from all future international competition with Team Canada. Your team's (and personal) reckless display sullied the sport and is a disgrace to everything ultimate represents.

Sincerely,
Jeremy
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #118995 is a reply to message #118994] Mon, 30 July 2012 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timothyegilligan
Messages: 38
Registered: May 2009
Member
http://i.imgur.com/tHw0b.gif
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #118996 is a reply to message #118994] Mon, 30 July 2012 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nolookthumber324
Messages: 2
Registered: July 2012
Junior Member
Damn that is some shameful shit. Maybe their cycles are synced and it was that time of the month.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #118997 is a reply to message #118994] Mon, 30 July 2012 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
who onfirst
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2011
Junior Member
On Monday, July 30, 2012 6:20:06 PM UTC-4, Joaquin wrote:
> Morgan Hibbert,
>
>
>
> In your interview with Match Diesel for Skyd Magazine, you
>
> mentioned that everything Sockeye does on the field annoys
>
> you, particularly their egregious calls.
>
>
>
> Interesting.
>
>
>
> Let's review Team Canada's performance against Japan in pool
>
> play of the World Ultimate and Guts Championship. Never have
>
> I seen such a blatant display of poor sportsmanship,
>
> dangerous play, and downright cheating as in this game.
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxf-HYYEvP0&feature=playe r_embedded
>
>
>
> Let's review:
>
>
>
> 4:55 - Andy Collins launches himself into the knees of the
>
> Japanese receiver on a disc he has no shot of defending.
>
>
>
> 11:15 - Andy Collins falls over after being bumped by a
>
> jukeing Japanese receiver, and proceeds to shove him while
>
> screaming in his face.
>
>
>
> 27:40 - A Japanese player trying not to run into Marc
>
> Seraglia's back puts his hands on Seraglia as he catches the
>
> goal. Seraglia whips around and spikes the disc inches from
>
> the defender's face and then screams at him.
>
>
>
> 33:35 - Morgan Hibbert catches a huck on the endzone line
>
> and then delivers a horrible backhand while dragging his
>
> pivot foot two feet into the endzone. He calls a foul on a
>
> defender that was nowhere near him. Hibbert proceeds to turn
>
> it over.
>
>
>
> 35:20 - Matt Doyle blatantly hacks the Japanese hucker after
>
> Adrian Yearwood launches himself into a pile of players
>
> going after an errant disc.
>
>
>
> 46:40 - Gabe Saunkeah lays out into the Japanese receiver's
>
> back and rides him out of bounds. He then gets upset that
>
> Team Japan isn't replacing the injured player fast enough.
>
>
>
> 47:35 - Gabe Saunkeah lays out into the back of the
>
> replacement receiver and brings him down.
>
>
>
> 47:55 - Morgan Hibbert lays out into the back of a Japanese
>
> receiver and tackles him to the ground.
>
>
>
> 50:35 - Nick Menzies lays out on an up-line cut and brings
>
> the receiver down.
>
>
>
> 104:20 - Gabe Saunkeah and Jeff Lindquist get really angry
>
> over a contested stall. Both players attempt to bully the
>
> Japanese thrower into reversing his call, and the Canadian
>
> sideline goes ballistic.
>
>
>
> 106:00 - Morgan Hibbert scores, and proceeds to bump into
>
> the Japanese defender, stare him down, and scream in his
>
> face.
>
>
>
> 108:00 - Thomas Kuhn drags his receiver down after a
>
> horizontal bid, and Alex Hughes dives into his receiver's
>
> knees on the very next throw.
>
>
>
> 115:10 - Nick Menzies is upset over a foul, and angrily
>
> barks at his defender.
>
>
>
> 120:39 - Hibbert blows off attempted hand slap from Japanese
>
> player.
>
>
>
> Entire game - Team Canada is egregiously offsides on every
>
> pull.
>
>
>
> Morgan, you are the captain of Furious George and the de
>
> facto captain of Team Canada. I call on the entire Ultimate
>
> Canada organization to issue an apology to Team Japan and
>
> for you to step down immediately as captain of Furious
>
> George and be removed from all future international
>
> competition with Team Canada. Your team's (and personal)
>
> reckless display sullied the sport and is a disgrace to
>
> everything ultimate represents.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jeremy
>
> --
>
> Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com

I love watching them constantly foul on the mark, and then complain that the throw came a half second after they hacked the thrower. The game versus Revolver was especially good for this. The egregious offsides on every pull was hilarious too.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #118998 is a reply to message #118995] Mon, 30 July 2012 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mvuong
Messages: 709
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
http://i.imgur.com/YV6FL.gif
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119000 is a reply to message #118994] Mon, 30 July 2012 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nolookthumber324
Messages: 2
Registered: July 2012
Junior Member
That is pretty shameful. I guess it was that time of the month.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119001 is a reply to message #118995] Mon, 30 July 2012 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joe
Messages: 40
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Jul 30, 4:00 pm, Gill <timothyegilli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://i.imgur.com/tHw0b.gif
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

Was there something the Japanese did to the Canadians during this
game? They did not act this way against the Americans. I don't know
if Japan provoked them (didn't have time to watch the whole thing),
but if not...how was this not brought up earlier? They were tackling
these guys over and over and the bumps/yelling at opponents after
scores are ridiculous (even for open). This kind of taunting and
bumping at a basketball game would start a brawl...why do they think
this is OK during a frisbee game tournament (way less physical than
basketball)? Can anyone vouch for Gabe or Hibbert (who were in my
opinion the two most abusive in this game)?

Props to Japan for not stooping to their level (if that truly is the
case) and pulling out the W.

Joe
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119002 is a reply to message #119001] Mon, 30 July 2012 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tonyhat
Messages: 10
Registered: February 2011
Junior Member
Linq20 (guessing Jeff Linquist) made this comment on reddit
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119003 is a reply to message #118994] Mon, 30 July 2012 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
l8ersk8er
Messages: 1
Registered: July 2012
Location: Canada
Junior Member
I just thought I would throw up my version of how that game shook down. I was on Team Canada open. This game was by far the craziest game ive been a part of. Hopefully I don't have to be in one like it for a long time. I'm certainly biased but I will try to give a respectful version of our side of thing so everyone knows what happened!

4:55 Collins bids high for a disc, which he very much has a chance at and doesn't get it. He lands safely and the Japanese player does a good job not to hurt himself or Collins on the landing.

11:15 Collins receives one of the nastiest cheapshots I have ever personally seen in ultimate. A brutal blindside shoulder up and under the jaw. Awful. Yes his initial reaction was rage but yours would be too if you could barely open your mouth for the next two days. An unfortunate way to start the game that started tempers flaring.

26:55 Marc Seraglia goes after a disc and receives a big shove while in the air. You are most vulnerable in the air and this was an unsafe play. After a discussion, the disc goes back. Standard Ultimate.

27:40 A Japanese player with no chance at the block bids and hits Seraglia in the back. Agreed, the spike and yelling was too much and not condoned. But another unsafe bid in the same point. Not cool.

33:35 Hibbert receives a huck and gets bumped in the throwing motion. Foul called. Contested, goes back to thrower. Standard Ultimate.

35:20 Adrian Yearwood and the Japan #17 make a simultaneous bid on the tipped disc. Both players came out unscathed. It was a good demonstration of focus by #17 to come up with that disc. Matt Doyle proceeds to hit the player in the arm and he spins dramatically around backward and falls down. Definitely a foul on the arm but certainly a gross over reaction that has no place especially in an un-reffed sport. I understand all cultures play different but I have never seen such an oscar winning performance in an ultimate game before. Maybe soccer. Uncontested foul. Back to 0.

46:00 48:00 Agreed. Unspirited plays that have no place in the game.

30:00-50:00 20 minute point with many calls and a trouble with language barrier and how we discuss calls. The Japanese wouldn't even enter a discussion many times; they would ignore us blatantly and just sit looking vacant. It wasn't a fair tactic. I am in no way condoning our yelling but I would say it is equally unfair. One just looks bad on camera Wink settling disputes with the language barrier caused an issue and that would be one thing I'm sure both teams would like to work on in the future to make games more enjoyable for everyone (including viewers)

50:35 A tired Nick Menzies at the end of a 20 minute point bids for a disc and gets caught up in the players cleats. Unfortunately he made his opponent stumble. No foul called, play continues. Probably happens about 5 times in every elite level game.

103:25 A clean block by Jeff Lindquist. A very timid and guilty call that the Japanese player refused to discuss. Followed by two clear 10 counts. Unfortunately, the Japanese players had no response but to just stare. It seemed sometimes they knew they were wrong but wouldn't say anything at all. Finally the ten count was upheld.

106:00 some clutching and grabbing that Hibbert was unhappy about from his end zone cut. Certainly didn't warrant a small bump after the play though.

108:00 A disc thrown behind the cutter. Thomas Kuhn had a safe line at the bid. The player has to go down to make the catch. Kuhn's feet/legs flop over his opponent. No foul called, play goes on. Hughes' bid was a touch dicey and unfortunate that he caught his opponent in the legs. Got a hand on the disc...no malicious intent. No foul called, play continues. Bids like this happen in every single game of elite ultimate. If they aren't your cup of tea, that's fine, don't play elite.

115:10 Nick Menzies reacts hotly to a cheap foul. He had been fouled twice already on that point by the same player. Repeat fouls are usually just a product of tired D as I am sure everyone was at that point of the game. Happens both ways, this is just an example of the Japanese playing physical and dirty.

120:39 Hibbert blows off a high five after losing a heartbreaker. I know the Japanese player means no harm and is only doing it because he respects team Canada, and the intense game that just took place, but offering a high five after to the player that just got beat for the game winner isn't a very good thing to do. I know there was no gloating in that offer but its still not a good idea. Believe me, you would blow off a hand slap immediately after suffering a loss like that.

Incidentally, Hibbert received the spirit prize after the game from the Japanese team. He was embarrassed but accepted it. They respected his passion and intensity and enjoyed playing us. We respected their patience and skill. It is always fun to play different countries at events like this. He apologized genuinely to the Japanese team on behalf of our team for our flaring tempers. Pottinger gave our spirit talk and talked about what a tough/intense game it was for both sides. We congratulated the Japanese on their big win and went on our way.

It is definitely unfortunate that the game had to shake down like this. I think games like this are good examples to the ultimate community of how not to react. Even though everything is on the line at the most prestigious tournament in the world, it doesn't give both teams the right to act stubborn and avoid the rules. Both teams broke the rules.

Coming from a player who plays with Morgan, I can assure you he won't step down from further international events. He already apologized to the Japanese team in person when it mattered most. Morgan is a warrior and if he has to take the entire blame for this game, I'm sure he will gladly take it. Everyone who stepped on that field that game was responsible for how it went down. He is certainly one of the greatest leaders/players and ambassadors of the sport today and will continue to be.

I only write this message because I would hate for someone to read the first post and watch the video with only one side covered. There are always two sides to understand especially on an controversial game like this. It is too bad the first post was hateful and one sided.

Watch the video, make up your mind. It is sports, crazy shit happens all the time, that's why we all love it!

Hope this helps!
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119004 is a reply to message #118996] Mon, 30 July 2012 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blw
Messages: 135
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
Maybe it'll just be lost in the media-cycle noise, but...

Even without any kind of third-party officiation, a bunch of incredibly intense athletes were somehow able to play fair AND competitive Ultimate. For every bad game, it seems like there was an Australia, a Germany, a USA or a UK that was playing to win AND maintaining honorable sportsmanship. And that's just on the Open side.

Sometimes it is hard to see the spirited forest when a couple of trees are busy hacking at each other's branches. It is still worthwhile to note that the large majority of the time, our best and most successful athletes hold themselves to a higher standard even when the armchair quarterbacks would predict otherwise.

That only gets forgotten when a) some bad exception to the rule dominates the headlines, or b) when you've played enough Ultimate that you start to forget how cool that is*.

sincerely,
background radiation

*my advice is to go watch some soccer or basketball or football with anything other than the 4 greatest officials in the world in each sport and you will start wishing for less third party officiation pretty quick.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119009 is a reply to message #119003] Mon, 30 July 2012 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jed
Messages: 175
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Monday, July 30, 2012 8:45:35 PM UTC-4, Guy wrote:

> 11:15 Collins receives one of the nastiest cheapshots I
>
> have ever personally seen in ultimate. A brutal blindside
>
> shoulder up and under the jaw. Awful. Yes his initial
>
> reaction was rage but yours would be too if you could barely
>
> open your mouth for the next two days. An unfortunate way to
>
> start the game that started tempers flaring.
>

Yeah, that shot Collins took from the Japanese guy was really dirty. Not surprised the game got ugly after that.

I basically saw it the way you described. Most of the plays above aren't nearly as bad or as one-sided as described (except the back-to-back Saunkeah ones - shouldn't have let a yank on the team ;).

Joaquin Wrote:

> "In your interview with Match Diesel for Skyd Magazine, you
> mentioned that everything Sockeye does on the field annoys
> you, particularly their egregious calls."

Every hear of a rivalry? Ever been a part of one? Did you love everything your rival did, or the calls they made, or the way they argued them?
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119012 is a reply to message #119009] Tue, 31 July 2012 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smntstatus
Messages: 68
Registered: May 2011
Member
So you thought that Hibbert's tackle immediately after Saunkeah's tackles wasn't that bad?

Interesting that you guys think Andy Collins took a cheap shot. Certainly looked like the guy was juking, and none of the other teams that played Japan seemed to have a problem with their sportsmanship. Canada, on the other hand, has had plenty of problems with other teams.

I know it's hard to believe, but it's possible to play good defense without making late bids and injuring your opponents. In fact, Japan got multiple layout D's against Canada via athleticism and good positioning, not aiming for the knees.

You can have a great rivalry without shoving your opponent, spiking it in your defender's face, and making horrible foul calls.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119013 is a reply to message #119003] Tue, 31 July 2012 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smntstatus
Messages: 68
Registered: May 2011
Member
"33:35 Hibbert receives a huck and gets bumped in the throwing motion. Foul called. Contested, goes back to thrower. Standard Ultimate."

You just lost all credibility.

"Matt Doyle proceeds to hit the player in the arm and he spins dramatically around backward and falls down. Definitely a foul on the arm but certainly a gross over reaction that has no place especially in an un-reffed sport."

Watch the replay again. Doyle turns around, sees the player about to throw a huck, and goes straight for the arm with a two handed hack. About as dirty as it gets.

"106:00 some clutching and grabbing that Hibbert was unhappy about from his end zone cut. Certainly didn't warrant a small bump after the play though."

Please. He was pissed about the block/stall that happened immediately before. Convenient that you ignore Hibbert screaming in the defender's face while bumping him.

Look, you can attempt to explain away everything Team Canada did in that game, but I think it would be better if you acknowledged fault and attempted to learn something for the future. Saying "it's elite ultimate, get over it" is an incredibly lame tact to take. Learn something from Revolver and play with class.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119018 is a reply to message #118994] Tue, 31 July 2012 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jimmm
Messages: 122
Registered: May 2010
Senior Member
"How dare you"?????????
Who says "how dare you"??????

Everything you described made it sound like a very entertaining game. Wish I could have seen it live.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119022 is a reply to message #119013] Tue, 31 July 2012 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mgd.mitch
Messages: 1207
Registered: January 2009
Senior Member
smntstatus wrote on Tue, 31 July 2012 03:35
Look, you can attempt to explain away everything Team Canada did in that game, but I think it would be better if you acknowledged fault and attempted to learn something for the future. Saying "it's elite ultimate, get over it" is an incredibly lame tact to take. Learn something from Revolver and play with class.
I looked at each of the things you had listed. I thought many of the bids from behind were clearly dangerous as the *only* place the defender could land was right on the receiver's back, but several of the items you have listed are not nearly as bad as you make them out to be. Just one example: Quote:
27:40 - A Japanese player trying not to run into Marc Seraglia's back puts his hands on Seraglia as he catches the goal.
IMO.... not even close to an accurate description. Players don't "try to not run into others" with a shoving motion, they merely put their hands out and bring their hands in trying to slow them. I'd say ~4 of the ~12 or so items are accurately described by you. Not a passing grade.

I'd say team canada shouldn't be particularly proud of their behavior, nor should Japan. Nor should you.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119024 is a reply to message #119012] Tue, 31 July 2012 06:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jed
Messages: 175
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Tuesday, July 31, 2012 3:25:03 AM UTC-4, Joaquin wrote:
> So you thought that Hibbert's tackle immediately after
>
> Saunkeah's tackles wasn't that bad?
>
Bad, but not as bad. It looked like fatigue was a definite factor (he wanted to bid but ended up sort of falling into the guy); and it was mitigated by immediate and seemingly sincere apology, which was accepted by the Japanese.

>
> Interesting that you guys think Andy Collins took a cheap
>
> shot. Certainly looked like the guy was juking
>
I distinctly see 1) a plant; 2) a shifting of weight to the right foot; and 3) a step up and into Collins, leading with his shoulder. I.e. it looks exactly like he was trying to lay him out with a body check. Could be he didn't like the touchy-feely D Collins was playing? It's possible he didn't mean to do it, but it certainly doesn't look like a normal juke.

I'd say the same about the overall game - bad, but not as bad as you described it. Even most of the plays in your little highlight reel of horror were either not as bad, or not as one sided, as you described. E.g. the Seraglia spike was moments after a hard foul on him in the endzone, which was contested (without discussion). 35:20, Yearwood's bid was perfectly legit, and the foul on the throw was very commonplace at the elite level. How often do you see a foul at stall zero to stop a huck? What wasn't commonplace was the soccer-like dive and flail on the ground by the Japanese player that followed.

I don't find yelling to be any more disrespectful than outright refusing to even attempt to discuss calls with your opponent. It's just louder.

>
> You can have a great rivalry without shoving your opponent,
>
> spiking it in your defender's face, and making horrible foul
>
> calls.
>

My rivalry comment was in response to your shock and indignation over Hibbert's comments regarding Sockeye. The teams have been rivals for something like 15 years, including overlapping dynasties and world championships. Of course they piss each other off at times. You think guys on Sockeye won't say similar things about Furious (if only in private)? Respecting your opponent doesn't mean you have to love everything they say or do at all times.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119025 is a reply to message #119004] Tue, 31 July 2012 06:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doc
Messages: 48
Registered: September 2008
Member
blw wrote on Mon, 30 July 2012 20:59
*my advice is to go watch some soccer or basketball or football with anything other than the 4 greatest officials in the world in each sport and you will start wishing for less third party officiation pretty quick.


Interesting viewpoint. However, you discount the possibility of having third party officiation AND playing with "spirit".

I can say from my experience coaching and talking to players on the Philadelphia Spinners (a number of whom also play or have played elite level open club for Southpaw, Ironside, etc) that the vast majority, if not all, prefer playing with officials. Officials make some bad calls, sure. But they aren't constantly having their viewpoint twisted by a conflict of interest. And seriously, if the Canada vs. Japan late hits and taunting would have occurred during an officiated game, order would have been restored with penalties and ejections, instead of allowing embarrassing game long grudges and arguments.

I'll be interested to talk to the Nexgen players after their exhibition with the Spinners on Thursday to see what their reaction to having referees is. Extrapolating from my admittedly small sample size, i'm betting they'd be open to more third party officiation, not less.

Marc "Doc" Stachowski
Assistant Coach, Philadelphia Spinners
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119032 is a reply to message #119003] Tue, 31 July 2012 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Quote:
Bids like this happen in every single game of elite ultimate. If they aren't your cup of tea, that's fine, don't play elite.


Just a general comment -- the "elite" designation is interesting. What makes a team (or player) "elite" to allow them to dictate to opponents (or spectators) what is or is not acceptable behavior. Do you count the number of rings the player or program has? Is there a time limit? Do you have to finish top 8 at the Club Championships? Top 10? How recently? Does college count for anything? Can a freshman on a Championship team call himself "elite" for the next four years and tell opponents to "deal with it" when he commits infractions?

It's a very vague standard. And given the significant variation team-to-team among the top teams (wherever you draw the line), I think it's hard to say that something is "elite" and if you don't like it, then don't play "elite," especially given conflicting (and admittedly biased) accounts of the acceptableness of the same plays.

Again, exploring discussion, who is elite? Are the Condors elite? The Boston masters team? Furious? Sockeye? Machine made quarters a few years ago, I think, and Sub Zero a bit before that. Oakland? Lots of College Champions on that squad. Do we go division-by-division to define "elite"? Blackbird?
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119033 is a reply to message #119025] Tue, 31 July 2012 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
blw
Messages: 135
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> blw wrote on Mon, 30 July 2012 20:59
> > *my advice is to go watch some soccer or basketball or
> > football with anything other than the 4 greatest officials
> > in the world in each sport and you will start wishing for
> > less third party officiation pretty quick.

On Tuesday, July 31, 2012 6:55:04 AM UTC-7, Doc wrote:
> Interesting viewpoint. However, you discount the
> possibility of having third party officiation AND playing
> with "spirit".

No, I most certainly did not.

> I can say from my experience coaching and talking to players
> on the Philadelphia Spinners (a number of whom also play or
> have played elite level open club for Southpaw, Ironside,
> etc) that the vast majority, if not all, prefer playing with
> officials.

Strawman.
The question is NOT: Is refereed Ultimate better for the few athletes playing the game when other costs and benefits are ignored?

The question IS: Is refereed Ultimate the best for the game?

Your 'vast majority' quote ignores costs of referees, loss of the special honor and sportsmanship in our game, a unique selling point to parents, fans and players, and the fact that all of these benefits can be retained using Observers. I am sure those players understand the complexity of the question that really needs to be asked...but you didn't ask them that, did you?

> Officials make some bad calls, sure. But they
> aren't constantly having their viewpoint twisted by a
> conflict of interest.

Fantasy world.
We hear about refereeing conflicts of interest every day. The last two days have had MAJOR refereeing controversies. Did you see the stack of Benjamins in the hand of the Japanese coach at gymnastics last night? Your idealized world where a perfectly trained referee that is beamed down from a spaceship before every game to be objective and excellent does not exist. The only reason that fantasy world has credence is that the vast majority of us watch, for the most part, the few individual best referees in each sport. Once you get past those outliers, refereeing gets pretty dicey pretty quick.

If you compare real world refereeing to real world Observing, it becomes hard to tell what the advantage of referees is. And that is even with the current state of Observing, where extremely well-meaning volunteers are working their asses off to do the best they can without proper support, training, and evaluation in far too many cases.

> And seriously, if the Canada vs.
> Japan late hits and taunting would have occurred during an
> officiated game, order would have been restored with
> penalties and ejections, instead of allowing embarrassing
> game long grudges and arguments.

Logical fallacy.
By this logic, no refereed games should ever devolve into arguments, grudges or retribution. You don't watch many other sports, do you?

> I'll be interested to talk to the Nexgen players after their
> exhibition with the Spinners on Thursday to see what their
> reaction to having referees is. Extrapolating from my
> admittedly small sample size, i'm betting they'd be open to
> more third party officiation, not less.
> Marc "Doc" Stachowski
> Assistant Coach, Philadelphia Spinners

Ask away. Just make sure you know what you are asking. So far, you have trotted out the same erroneous and oversimplified logic that lots of other pro-ref people have brought up before you.

I'm not philosophically opposed to referees. But I just can't figure it in a way that makes sense. The advantages of self-officiation and Observing that I see every day seem far more logical than the disadvantages of refereeing that I see every day. There is a better path...I don't think we are on it yet, but it is there.

For the record, I hope the AUDL does great. I hope that I can go to a Spinners vs. Seattle game some time in the future, and I hope the crowd is savvy enough to catcall a poor player call and to politely applaud the Observers after the National anthem.
blw
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119034 is a reply to message #119033] Tue, 31 July 2012 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tenspot
Messages: 42
Registered: October 2009
Member
It's strange that alleged bribing of referees is a concern while bribing observers is not.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119036 is a reply to message #119033] Tue, 31 July 2012 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aghesquiere
Messages: 36
Registered: October 2008
Member
I agree with Ben on his points. It is *clearly* possibly to play highly spirited ultimate with the most competitive players in the biggest games. I found that all of our games (team USA Open), even the 2 dgp games, were spirited and fun to be a part of. I think a big part of this is bringing mutual respect to the game and knowing how to discuss calls. Explosions, heated arguments, and make-up calls have no place in the un-observed game. If you take those out, as we tried to do, the 'escalation' ('escalation' devolution) you see in a game like Japan-Canada doesn't happen. The USA-Canada game started with mutual respect (owing to a respectful history of good games in the past) and was a 'cleaner' game because of it.

Similar to the original poster, I found this year's Canada team had some spirit failings in the game against Japan. I think they (and Japan) should not shrink from holding themselves responsible for how the game turned out. Personally I feel Canada's consistent negative reaction to any Japanese call compounded into an extremely negative situation.

In some cases, observers have been a big help to club ultimate games. I have been particularly grateful for them in many games where the participating teams did *not* bring mutual respect to the field. In those games, especially with certain personality types involved, there is sometimes no recourse but to have an observer system dole out rulings and take the brunt of the players anger (rather than the opponents taking it). Like Ben, however, I would vastly prefer the type of games we played at Worlds, where we honored the calls of the other team and were treated with respect in return.

I think some WFDF rule changes would help eliminate some of the frequently occuring spirit violations and aid in removing some of the contentiousness, for example:
-Contact calls immediately going to 0, this should really eliminate the body contact on the mark.
-Pick calls having continuation, similar to the USAU rules, so there is no argument about 'when' the pick occurred
-Fast count calls going down 3 or 4 counts on the first call; this would actually penalize a fast counter. I considered suggesting fast counts going back to 0 as well, considering how consistent the fast count is on certain teams.

Against certain teams I'm not sure even that would be enough, and am sure an observer would be a welcome presence. I think I am conflicted by wanting to play in a league where all the games have the same attitude as our games at worlds, but facing the reality that certain teams and players really benefit from observers. WFDF has hosted the most controversial games in the past few decades, whereas the observer system has done a great job of preventing significant controversy in the USAU club series in recent memory. I think the system we have, without referees but with passive observers, has come to a pretty good compromise so far.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119040 is a reply to message #119003] Tue, 31 July 2012 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boyblu3
Messages: 40
Registered: May 2012
Member
l8ersk8er wrote on Mon, 30 July 2012 17:43


11:15 Collins receives one of the nastiest cheapshots I have ever personally seen in ultimate. A brutal blindside shoulder up and under the jaw. Awful. Yes his initial reaction was rage but yours would be too if you could barely open your mouth for the next two days. An unfortunate way to start the game that started tempers flaring.




Really? This is the nastiest cheapshot you've ever seen? I would have done the same exact thing if I was that Japanese player. If I have someone constantly bumping up against me on defense, I'll plant my foot come to a stop and lean into them, so when they continue to try and bump against me and I've planted my foot and shifted my weight they end up on their ass. The only reason that jackass got hurt was his own momentum from trying to rub his ballsack all over the Japanese player. The Japanese player didn't even leave his feet, all he did was stop moving and shift his weight and that stupid asshole Collins did all the rest.

Congrats, your defense of "It's Japans fault we yelled, pushed people, and laid out with the intent to injure players, because they wouldn't talk to us" is going over really well.

Team Canada everyone I know thinks you guys are pieces of shit after watching this game, and losers to boot you would think after playing a game that dirty you would at least win. Congrats on being the shining example of the worst part of Ultimate, way to represent your country.

Highlight of the game is when Hibbert calls the foul on the defender who is 3 feet away from him , then proceeds to turn it over on the goal line anyway, god you are bad.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119041 is a reply to message #118994] Tue, 31 July 2012 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kid4v
Messages: 9
Registered: April 2012
Location: Seattle
Junior Member
What many people in support of the Canadian team are saying is that Japan made very little attempt to discuss calls. I agree that they should explain their calls but you guys leave no consideration for the language barrier. How many people on Team Canada know Japanese/ how many of you feel confident enough in a second language to not only explain you call but have an argument about that call in your second language?
I do not know how many/ how well the Japanese national team speaks English, but I am willing to bet that it is less/worse than Team Canada
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119043 is a reply to message #119036] Tue, 31 July 2012 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jed
Messages: 175
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Tuesday, July 31, 2012 1:25:05 PM UTC-4, aghes...@gmail.com wrote:
> I agree with Ben on his points. It is *clearly* possibly to
>
> play highly spirited ultimate with the most competitive
>
> players in the biggest games.

Of course it is, but I don't think that is the right question. I think it is more appropriate to ask not whether it's possible, but in which scenario (refs / observers / neither) are we most likely to see a game degenerate into ugliness - whether that be angry drawn out arguments, escalating make-up calls and fouls, and/or general dangerous plays. I think either observers or refs would have made a world of difference in this game - even mediocre ones.

As for observers vs refs, I'm not even sure I know the difference any more. Are UOA officials considered refs? I think the line between the two has become fairly blurred.

>
> Personally I feel Canada's consistent negative reaction to
>
> any Japanese call compounded into an extremely negative
>
> situation.
>
I agree, but I ask you to consider how you would react if an opponent in a critical game repeatedly refused to discuss their calls. Better yet, try it out at the next unobserved high-level game you play: when an opponent questions a call you make, refuse to clarify, explain, or even acknowledge that they're addressing you (per the disputed stall call referenced above). I predict fun and games ensue.

I don't suggest that the Canadian players should be absolved for the way they acted, nor should the language barrier be ignored; but I have to admit that I doubt I would have kept composure. Close calls have a way of getting emotions up. Just as even the briefest of explanations can go a long way to easing the tensions, a refusal to discuss will have an escalating effect.

If there had been observers, the Canadians would not have gotten away with a lot of what they did / said, but nor would the Japanese have been able to make calls and not explain them.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119045 is a reply to message #119040] Tue, 31 July 2012 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Knappy
Messages: 830
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
"WFDF has hosted the most controversial games in the past few decades, whereas the observer system has done a great job of preventing significant controversy in the USAU club series in recent memory. I think the system we have, without referees but with passive observers, has come to a pretty good compromise so far."

Excellent post ending in a very interesting point. Hope the players who went to worlds are sending lots of feedback like this to WFDF.

Haven't the Vancouver teams played a physical, rules-bending style for over a decade now? I only have a small sample size so curious what west coast folks think. Although the OP likely went overboard in his analysis, the video clearly shows behavior that is intentionally dangerous & totally unacceptable. Has WFDF begun a conversation about repercussions for this behavior? are penalties/banning in play?

To the Canadian player who had the cojones to come on here & try to justify the behavior: you didn't help your team's case.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119047 is a reply to message #118994] Tue, 31 July 2012 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Marput
Messages: 992
Registered: June 2010
Location: Columbia Missouri
Senior Member
I've played some jerky opponents through the years but don't remember ever wanting an apology for their poor sportsmanship. I'd prefer to simply ignore them after the game or tournament.

But this is a whole new world and all that.


music on tap:
Chuck Prophet, Apology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5VDZzgKLi4



Everybody wants an apology
Me from you, and you from me
The accursed from the blessed
The great northeast
Ffrom the old southwest
Everybody wants an apology

Everybody wants an apology
Cbs from the mtv
But it always takes too long
And it always comes
Out all wrong
I don't even want your apology

Someday soon
The vatican is gonna call
One day even the warden's
Going over the wall
The shoulder from the road
The cancer from the scorpio
Someday soon
The vatican is gonna call

How can i swallow
Every little thing she says
She don't even know
Elvis from el vez
If the king was here today
You know he'd make
That sucker pay
She don't even know
Elvis from el vez

Everybody wants an apology
Me from you
Me from you and you from me
Tell me what good would it do
If i got down on my knees
Just for you
Everybody wants an apology
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119050 is a reply to message #119003] Tue, 31 July 2012 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joe
Messages: 40
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Jul 30, 5:45 pm, Guy <kev_uh...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 33:35  Hibbert receives a huck and gets bumped in the
> throwing motion. Foul called. Contested, goes back to
> thrower. Standard Ultimate.

This is not standard ultimate...he falls into the guys body, travels,
finishes his throw and then calls a crappy foul. There appears to be
no contact on hibbert's hand or body during the throwing motion.

I totally understand that with refs you are trying to get away with
anything that will get you an extra edge because it's the ref's job to
prevent you from doing something illegal. If they don't catch you,
you're a smart player (i.e. john stockton). But when you play in a
self-officiated game its on you to play within the rules. It appears
that there was a point when Canada said to themselves - there are no
refs and we're gonna hack these guys until they break down since no
TMFs/PMFs can be assessed. Again, props to Japan for weathering the
overphysical play.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119051 is a reply to message #119043] Tue, 31 July 2012 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigg_nate
Messages: 28
Registered: November 2011
Junior Member
Jed wrote on Tue, 31 July 2012 11:24
I agree, but I ask you to consider how you would react if an opponent in a critical game repeatedly refused to discuss their calls. Better yet, try it out at the next unobserved high-level game you play: when an opponent questions a call you make, refuse to clarify, explain, or even acknowledge that they're addressing you (per the disputed stall call referenced above). I predict fun and games ensue.


The Japanese player said "fast count." What other clarification do you really need? Having to "defend" my calls to overly-aggro players screaming in my face is my least favorite part of playing unobserved ultimate, and sometimes I do pull the "stop reacting" routine.

And the fast count looks pretty reasonable. By my count, if the marker were counting seconds, the disc would have been released just before stall 6. Also, there's absolutely no way the second, uncontested, stall should have been called -- he didn't hold the disc anywhere near 2 seconds. So Canada's intimidation tactics were successful in that case, at least.

Thanks,
- Nate
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119053 is a reply to message #119003] Tue, 31 July 2012 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
druse77
Messages: 31
Registered: October 2010
Member
"11:15 Collins receives one of the nastiest cheapshots I have ever personally seen in ultimate. A brutal blindside shoulder up and under the jaw. Awful."

Really? I just watched that play a few times to see the vicious hit you describe and it really doesnt look bad at all. Collins is riding the guy the entire point, how is he blindsided? I could get characterizing it as a cheap shot but saying its one of the "nastiest" you've ever seen is ridiculous and immediately lets me know that every single thing you say is more than just biased. Every contentious point, other than the very obvious indefensible tackles by Gabe, is described by you as "We were right, japan was wrong" and "This shit happens all the time in elite." Kudos. Dozens upon dozens have watched the video and are telling you and your team that your spirit and your behavior was embarrassing and out of line. I'd guess you won't be doing this with observers at Sarasota but also don't be surprised if this doesn't add fuel to the fire to vote to keep Canadian teams out of USAU championships.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119055 is a reply to message #118994] Tue, 31 July 2012 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mozaic
Messages: 141
Registered: February 2011
Senior Member
smntstatus wrote on Mon, 30 July 2012 18:16
Morgan Hibbert,



11:15 - Andy Collins falls over after being bumped by a jukeing Japanese receiver, and proceeds to shove him while screaming in his face.

27:40 - A Japanese player trying not to run into Marc Seraglia's back puts his hands on Seraglia as he catches the goal. Seraglia whips around and spikes the disc inches from the defender's face and then screams at him.



Haven't had a chance to watch the entire game, so just jumped to a couple spots. (those two above).

11.15. Agree with Jeremy. Collins was putting a physical mark on a cutter, and from the cuts prior to this, you can see the Japanese movement is consistent. And then the contact... Not sure how you consider this a cheapshot. Collins was playing close and tough, with a lot of body contact, and came off worse than a player trying to cut.

27:40. Disagree with Jeremy on this one re the hands in the back. From my viewing, I wouldn't say that he puts his hand in the back to avoid running into him. Looks like a push. Not withstanding, the spike at the player and screaming in the face had no place in a game being played at the World Champs.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119056 is a reply to message #119041] Tue, 31 July 2012 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mixnuts
Messages: 73
Registered: January 2011
Member
kid4v wrote on Tue, 31 July 2012 10:56
What many people in support of the Canadian team are saying is that Japan made very little attempt to discuss calls. I agree that they should explain their calls but you guys leave no consideration for the language barrier. How many people on Team Canada know Japanese/ how many of you feel confident enough in a second language to not only explain you call but have an argument about that call in your second language?
I do not know how many/ how well the Japanese national team speaks English, but I am willing to bet that it is less/worse than Team Canada

This seems like a really good point
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119061 is a reply to message #119050] Tue, 31 July 2012 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sanfordcw
Messages: 153
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Tuesday, July 31, 2012 1:13:48 PM UTC-7, joe wrote:
> On Jul 30, 5:45 pm, Guy <kev_uh...@hotmail.com> wrote: > 33:35  Hibbert receives a huck and gets bumped in the > throwing motion. Foul called. Contested, goes back to > thrower. Standard Ultimate.

Joe wrote:

This is not standard ultimate...he falls into the guys body, travels, finishes his throw and then calls a crappy foul. There appears to be no contact on hibbert's hand or body during the throwing motion.




Hey Joe, this sounds to me like you must have turned off the video camera when a certain 00 was plying this technique over and over on the way to many, many championships.

If this isn't standard high level ulty, the game has changed a lot since I stopped playing in '06!
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119063 is a reply to message #119033] Tue, 31 July 2012 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anondo
Messages: 6
Registered: July 2012
Junior Member
That is a valid viewpoint, but I would like to add 2 cents:
Having attended (as a spectator) both college nationals and a Spinners game within a few weeks of each other, IMHO the AUDL game is 1000x more fun to watch (especially if you're attending with people who aren't huge ultimate fans). It's strange that some feel so threatened by refereed ultimate.

*Admittedly I prefer watching NexGen games to either of these, but seeing as the NexGen tour is a series of all-star games/exhibitions/goodwill promotions, of course the presence or lack of refs is irrelevant in that case.

blw wrote on Tue, 31 July 2012 09:19
> blw wrote on Mon, 30 July 2012 20:59
> > *my advice is to go watch some soccer or basketball or
> > football with anything other than the 4 greatest officials
> > in the world in each sport and you will start wishing for
> > less third party officiation pretty quick.

On Tuesday, July 31, 2012 6:55:04 AM UTC-7, Doc wrote:
> Interesting viewpoint. However, you discount the
> possibility of having third party officiation AND playing
> with "spirit".

No, I most certainly did not.

> I can say from my experience coaching and talking to players
> on the Philadelphia Spinners (a number of whom also play or
> have played elite level open club for Southpaw, Ironside,
> etc) that the vast majority, if not all, prefer playing with
> officials.

Strawman.
The question is NOT: Is refereed Ultimate better for the few athletes playing the game when other costs and benefits are ignored?

The question IS: Is refereed Ultimate the best for the game?

Your 'vast majority' quote ignores costs of referees, loss of the special honor and sportsmanship in our game, a unique selling point to parents, fans and players, and the fact that all of these benefits can be retained using Observers. I am sure those players understand the complexity of the question that really needs to be asked...but you didn't ask them that, did you?

> Officials make some bad calls, sure. But they
> aren't constantly having their viewpoint twisted by a
> conflict of interest.

Fantasy world.
We hear about refereeing conflicts of interest every day. The last two days have had MAJOR refereeing controversies. Did you see the stack of Benjamins in the hand of the Japanese coach at gymnastics last night? Your idealized world where a perfectly trained referee that is beamed down from a spaceship before every game to be objective and excellent does not exist. The only reason that fantasy world has credence is that the vast majority of us watch, for the most part, the few individual best referees in each sport. Once you get past those outliers, refereeing gets pretty dicey pretty quick.

If you compare real world refereeing to real world Observing, it becomes hard to tell what the advantage of referees is. And that is even with the current state of Observing, where extremely well-meaning volunteers are working their asses off to do the best they can without proper support, training, and evaluation in far too many cases.

> And seriously, if the Canada vs.
> Japan late hits and taunting would have occurred during an
> officiated game, order would have been restored with
> penalties and ejections, instead of allowing embarrassing
> game long grudges and arguments.

Logical fallacy.
By this logic, no refereed games should ever devolve into arguments, grudges or retribution. You don't watch many other sports, do you?

> I'll be interested to talk to the Nexgen players after their
> exhibition with the Spinners on Thursday to see what their
> reaction to having referees is. Extrapolating from my
> admittedly small sample size, i'm betting they'd be open to
> more third party officiation, not less.
> Marc "Doc" Stachowski
> Assistant Coach, Philadelphia Spinners

Ask away. Just make sure you know what you are asking. So far, you have trotted out the same erroneous and oversimplified logic that lots of other pro-ref people have brought up before you.

I'm not philosophically opposed to referees. But I just can't figure it in a way that makes sense. The advantages of self-officiation and Observing that I see every day seem far more logical than the disadvantages of refereeing that I see every day. There is a better path...I don't think we are on it yet, but it is there.

For the record, I hope the AUDL does great. I hope that I can go to a Spinners vs. Seattle game some time in the future, and I hope the crowd is savvy enough to catcall a poor player call and to politely applaud the Observers after the National anthem.
blw

Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119064 is a reply to message #119003] Tue, 31 July 2012 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jt
Messages: 65
Registered: February 2009
Member
On Jul 30, 8:45 pm, Guy <kev_uh...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 103:25  A clean block by Jeff Lindquist. A very timid and
> guilty call that the Japanese player refused to discuss.
> Followed by two clear 10 counts. Unfortunately, the Japanese
> players had no response but to just stare. It seemed
> sometimes they knew they were wrong but wouldn't say
> anything at all. Finally the ten count was upheld.

Going to only comment on this as this is blatant bs. (not saying
other isn't cause this game disgusts me) Japan thrower catches and
throws disc within 2 seconds (per timer), contested foul. Assuming it
came back in on 6 (should be 3 or 4), thrower releases after 2-3
seconds tops and #20 goes "ballistic" over stall count. Then #9
chimes in. Total disgust at the way TC acted and can't watch anymore
tonight after watching first hour.

I know that my teams in the past have acted aggressive as well but
this goes way beyond imo.
JT
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119065 is a reply to message #118994] Tue, 31 July 2012 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
knice
Messages: 79
Registered: October 2010
Member
Disagree with a couple of your observations.

The Marc Seraglia play at 27:40 really needs to be viewed in its entire context. The time to watch from is 26:50. Oscar Pottinger has the disc on the sideline and puts up a high flick to Marc towards the back of the endzone. As Marc goes up for the disc #29 from Japan, Sasakawa Kei, makes absolutely no play on the disc and just rams a forearm into Marc's back. This is a very dangerous play and on par with anything that we would see from TC during the 46-52 minute time span. After the restart, Marc again catches the disc in the endzone and is on the receiving end of a two handed push from the Japanese defender # 97 Shiba Keiichiro. The disc spike is nothing worse than what continually appears in the AUDL highlights.

Andy Collins play at 11:15 - the Japanese player #29 makes another appearance on the cheap shot list. Clearly he stops and levels a shoulder into Collins in retaliation for the physical D Collins is playing.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119066 is a reply to message #119065] Tue, 31 July 2012 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boyblu3
Messages: 40
Registered: May 2012
Member
knice wrote on Tue, 31 July 2012 22:46

Andy Collins play at 11:15 - the Japanese player #29 makes another appearance on the cheap shot list. Clearly he stops and levels a shoulder into Collins in retaliation for the physical D Collins is playing.


Man such a cheap shot the Japanese player stopped moving and moved his body weight so he wouldn't get plowed over by the guy humping his leg. Last time I checked, when someone runs into you and you are standing flat footed, you are the one who ends up on the ground. The Japanese player wasn't even sprinting when he stopped I would call it a slow jog to fast walk at most.

You sir, are dumb, and your opinion is invalid.
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119067 is a reply to message #118994] Tue, 31 July 2012 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Boyblu3
Messages: 40
Registered: May 2012
Member
Quote:
33:35 Hibbert receives a huck and gets bumped in the throwing motion.


http://i45.tinypic.com/11gsjeh.gif


............
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119068 is a reply to message #119067] Wed, 01 August 2012 03:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bobus
Messages: 305
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member

I hope they tested some of the players on Team Canada after that game.
Serious display of 'roid rage if I've ever seen one!

I was glad to see the better team won the game in the end...
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119069 is a reply to message #119065] Wed, 01 August 2012 04:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doc
Messages: 48
Registered: September 2008
Member
knice wrote on Wed, 01 August 2012 01:46
...The disc spike is nothing worse than what continually appears in the AUDL highlights.


Except that in professional Ultimate, you're required to act professionally and not taunt. That display of poor sportsmanship would have drawn a penalty and possibly an ejection if it was a repeated offense.

So, no, you don't see the spike-at-someone-and-get-in-their-face celebration "continually appear" in AUDL highlights.

Doc
Re: How dare you, Morgan Hibbert [message #119071 is a reply to message #119065] Wed, 01 August 2012 06:00 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
ilyas
Messages: 113
Registered: January 2012
Senior Member
[quote title=knice wrote on Wed, 01 August 2012 01:46 The disc spike is nothing worse than what continually appears in the AUDL highlights.
[/quote]

Seriously?? Have you ever watched any AUDL highlights? I have attended and watching double digit AUDL games and I have never seen anyone whip a disc at someone's face(someone on the ground no less) before. Really inaccurate statement.

The display of aggro by TC in this match can't be compared to anything we've seen, except possibly to TC's pol play match against Colombia(in which they were also awful, and the game was never close)
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