| PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105394] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 09:14  |
joshmoore7
Messages: 30
Registered: February 2011 |
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The American Ultimate Disc League is proud to announce the formation of a new professional Ultimate league, coming this April 2012. Today the AUDL put out it's first national press release, which can be viewed here:
http://www.onlineprnews.com/news/174368-1318016661-the-ameri can-ultimate-disc-league-audl-to-begin-in-2012.html
We would like to thank the members of this forum that have offered thoughts, support and involvement over the past several months, and welcome all who have interest in what we are doing to learn more. We are encouraging the Ultimate community to engage within the AUDL as players, coaches, officials, sponsors, or fans, and help take the sport to another level. We invite you to visit the league and team websites and follow us on Facebook and Twitter.
In Ultimate,
Josh Moore, President
American Ultimate Disc League
www.theaudl.com
info@theaudl.com
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105396 is a reply to message #105394] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 09:25  |
JohnAllen
Messages: 64
Registered: March 2011 |
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lotta good players out in indianapolis? buffalo? with one city represented at nationals this year (and a bottom one at that), it would be interesting to see what sort of product and quality would get put out.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105398 is a reply to message #105396] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 09:37 |
ultimatesamwood
Messages: 60
Registered: December 2008 |
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JohnAllen wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 12:25lotta good players out in indianapolis?
A number of Madcow's players are based in and around Indianapolis.
You might remember Madcow as an elite club team who has made Nationals in the past and lost this year in the game-to-go.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105404 is a reply to message #105402] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 10:03 |
Alex Peters
Messages: 279
Registered: September 2008 |
Senior Member |
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Bulb wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 12:59Division championships on the same weekend as Wildwood? There goes the Philadelphia team.
Whoever this mysterious Philadelphia owner is will probably be surprised when their entire fan base chooses to go play in their SL game instead of attending home games.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105406 is a reply to message #105404] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 10:12 |
Mankind
Messages: 31
Registered: October 2008 |
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God forbid someone actually go out and try to make a professional league. Refs, rule changes to make the game more watchable, games played in stadiums....what terrible ideas. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but it's hard for me to see why this is a bad thing or worth bashing it on a public forum.
Considering I've been playing ultimate for 10 years and have been paid approximately (complete wild ass guess) -$5,000 a year for it I am pretty excited for the opportunity to play for a net zero cost. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105407 is a reply to message #105406] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 10:23 |
Alex Peters
Messages: 279
Registered: September 2008 |
Senior Member |
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Mankind wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 13:12 Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but it's hard for me to see why this is a bad thing or worth bashing it on a public forum.
It's not the concepts, it's the execution and the lack of information. Some of the rule changes seem almost arbitrary and poorly thought out.
Maybe it'll work, but I don't see it doing any better than Kronum, which is ridiculously obscure but still seems to have far, far better funding, execution and technology (sweet trailers and video recaps of games and stats on their website) than the AUDL.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105408 is a reply to message #105394] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 10:27 |
jorhyne
Messages: 90
Registered: April 2010 |
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What I don't understand is why they didn't reach out and try to build the league with existing clubs, or at least work with them in developing their plans. The ultimate community is so tight knit, it would've seemed logical to try to tap into that instead of working from the outside in with "owners" who don't seem to have much experience or knowledge of ultimate.
This will be fun to watch no matter what happens.
Jordan
Madcow #33, future Columbus Crane?!?!?!?!!?
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105410 is a reply to message #105407] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 10:41 |
Bulb
Messages: 1060
Registered: September 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA |
Senior Member |
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Mankind wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 13:12 Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but it's hard for me to see why this is a bad thing or worth bashing it on a public forum.
Who's bashing it?
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105412 is a reply to message #105411] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 11:02 |
Foxx
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2010 |
Junior Member |
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A professional league? Wow, this is big news. Any idea what the average salary is per player? Where is the funding coming from to support player salaries, insurance, expenses, travel, promotion, etc...? This sounds like a pretty big endeavor!
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105414 is a reply to message #105412] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 11:10 |
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008 |
Senior Member |
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Does anyone care to speculate how this can be viable/profitable? Where will the money come from? Where will the players come from? Where will the fans come from?
Does anybody know anyone who is involved with this venture so far who has any demonstrable knowledge of the sport?
This would truly be awesome if it took off, and the Ultimate community should root for something like this to work. But it would also be nice to see some credibility.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105415 is a reply to message #105405] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 11:11 |
mgd.mitch
Messages: 1167
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Bulb wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 13:10
I am convinced this is a joke.
If it isn't, he sure is trying REALLY hard to make it look like one.
My guess is "joke" as well. The choice of cities, the lack of information about any players, etc, etc.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105417 is a reply to message #105415] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 11:31 |
forceflick
Messages: 21
Registered: April 2011 |
Junior Member |
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It looks like Indy is having a combine on October 30. So we won't get much information on players until then.
Something else is every team website looks different, and with the exception of a couple, they look really bad. Every NFL team's website looks basically the same. Helps legitimize it, and there is barely anything that legitimizes this league, as of right now.
I agree we should be excited for this league, and I am. Let's just hope it does more good than harm.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105418 is a reply to message #105415] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 11:32 |
alanh
Messages: 50
Registered: October 2010 |
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Good luck to the organizers. I'd pay to see it at least once if they come to my area.
I would suggest that they expand their ruleset significantly. For example, there is no mention of what defines a foul, positioning before a pull, and it reads like momentum carrying the disc into the endzone would result in a score. Also, there is no mention of what happens when play stops (do player freeze?), how continuation works, picks seem to be legal (intentional rule change?), or how the yardage penalties are assessed.
On specific question I see that needs a lot of expansion: how does the clock work? Is it stopped time (like in Basketball: clock runs only when disc/ball is in play), semi-stopped (like in US Football: clock runs during possession, sometimes between plays, and stops after scores), or running (like Soccer: runs continuously whether or not anything is happening on the field or not). What rules are there to balance against delay-of-game tactics?
Innovation and experimentation such as this are good things for the sport. Now, if it's all a joke that's fine, but I don't know why someone would waste that kind of time/money/effort....
-alan
Alan Hoyle
alan@tfda.org
http://www.tfda.org/
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| PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105421 is a reply to message #105415] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 11:43 |
Lance Marput
Messages: 843
Registered: June 2010
Location: Columbia Missouri |
Senior Member |
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The guy graduated from my neck of the woods, Mizzou (MUtant ultimate country, Missouri). Never met him.
Earned a degree in accounting... is what he told me in recent e-mail.
Who knows, maybe he's a numbers, fundraising & marketing genius.
Peter Mc
MDSC
(MUtants staff advisor since ~ 2003)
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105423 is a reply to message #105417] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 12:00 |
Squeaks
Messages: 13
Registered: April 2009 |
Junior Member |
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On Oct 13, 2:35 pm, Force Flick <forceflickp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It looks like Indy is having a combine on October 30.
This is the kind of poorly thought out thing that generates criticism.
Holding the combine during club nationals? Seriously, who thought that
was a good idea? Don't they want these elite players on the teams?
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105424 is a reply to message #105423] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 12:14 |
mgd.mitch
Messages: 1167
Registered: January 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Squeaks wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 15:00
This is the kind of poorly thought out thing that generates criticism. Holding the combine during club nationals? Seriously, who thought that was a good idea? Don't they want these elite players on the teams?
Two possibilities. First, since this is likely not real, it doesn't matter. Second, on the off chance this is real and they are dumb enough to choose cities outside of current centers of interest for the sport... choosing a date that coincides with nationals wouldn't matter since they only really one or two areas that are currently representing elite ultimate in the first place.
It's these kinds of details that make this attempt at a joke a very bad one, or an attempt at a real business a horrible one.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105429 is a reply to message #105427] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 12:36 |
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008 |
Senior Member |
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Reggie Fanelli wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 14:16
---The UOA should be officiating this League.
.....and training all the officials.
Hey Mike, I thought it was mentioned in a previous thread that you and Josh Moore were getting in touch to discuss the UOA doing the officiating. What became of that? Is it gonna happen?
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105437 is a reply to message #105433] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 12:54 |
jeremy.mcnamara
Messages: 491
Registered: November 2008
Location: Albany |
Senior Member |
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Regarding player salaries, or lack of, here is a direct quote from his Franchise Opportunity document that he emailed me:
"Salaries of players/coaches this is negotiable by team, but many players may play for free given the fact that playing in organized leagues usually costs THEM money for participation."
The numbers in the document are fanciful and would, at a minimum, take hundreds of hours to achieve the sponsorship he dreams of. If anyone wants me to email them the document so you can see the bullshit yourself, feel free to email me.
j mac
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105438 is a reply to message #105437] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 13:00 |
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008 |
Senior Member |
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jeremy.mcnamara wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 14:54Regarding player salaries, or lack of, here is a direct quote from his Franchise Opportunity document that he emailed me:
"Salaries of players/coaches this is negotiable by team, but many players may play for free given the fact that playing in organized leagues usually costs THEM money for participation."
The numbers in the document are fanciful and would, at a minimum, take hundreds of hours to achieve the sponsorship he dreams of. If anyone wants me to email them the document so you can see the bullshit yourself, feel free to email me.
j mac
I have an older copy of the same proposal, when he was trying to get teams in the midwest, in towns that had no sizable Ultimate community to speak of. He speculated that, in addition to sponsorships and TV revenue, profits could come from a "conservative" estimate of 2000 paid fans at each game.
In subsequent email conversations with him, when I kindly pointed out the lack of rational thinking, he stated that even 500 fans could generate $25,000 in profit per game.
LMAO!
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105441 is a reply to message #105429] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 13:08 |
Reggie Fanelli
Messages: 1945
Registered: September 2011 |
Senior Member |
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> Hey Mike, I thought it was mentioned in a previous thread
> that you and Josh Moore were getting in touch to discuss the
> UOA doing the officiating. What became of that? Is it gonna
> happen?
~~~~~~~~
---obviously....we'd be thrilled beyond belief to help out!
i want to officiate games....
and i know jason and i would train the heck out officials in the areas
where the teams will be located!
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105442 is a reply to message #105438] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 13:11 |
Alex Peters
Messages: 279
Registered: September 2008 |
Senior Member |
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On Oct 13, 4:05 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In subsequent email conversations with him, when I kindly
> pointed out the lack of rational thinking, he stated that
> even 500 fans could generate $25,000 in profit per game.
>
> LMAO!
How many fans were there for nexgen?
I think they said there were something like 500 for Seattle, paying (I
think) $5 each. Which is $2500.
At Philly I would estimate there were about 300, paying nothing.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105443 is a reply to message #105440] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 13:27 |
joshmoore7
Messages: 30
Registered: February 2011 |
Member |
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Thank you to those that have contacted me about getting involved. We realize this endeavor is not going to be received with excitement from everybody, but our goal is to put ourselves out there for those on the site that may have interest. It appears the same individuals that have been vocal critics in the past are the same ones now. It seems a small handful go out of their way to discredit every thing we do every time the AUDL is mentioned, and that is unfortunate. We understand that we have things to clean up over the next six months prior to our first game and are working to do so. I encourage anybody interested in learning more about the league to contact me, as opposed to outdated documents being sent without permission.
For those that have offered positive feedback - we will consider putting more information up around our rules. Our rulebook is pretty long and we did not want to overwhelm somebody new to the sport, but rather, hit the highlights on the website. We will work to make sure the full rules are out there for the hardcore players and fans. Additionally, we are currently working to update and standardize our team websites, which should look very nice when it is all done. If anybody is interested in learning about a team's plans for player compensation, tryouts/training camps, etc. please feel free to reach out to the respective owner, as these will vary between teams. Finally, if anybody has any questions, concerns, comments about the league, I invite you to e-mail me and discuss any time. I would much rather have a conversation rather than see wrong assumptions being posted on a public forum.
Thanks!
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105446 is a reply to message #105443] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 13:36 |
jeremy.mcnamara
Messages: 491
Registered: November 2008
Location: Albany |
Senior Member |
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Putting aside for now the fact that the league is destined for failure; I have been wondering how the modified field dimensions will affect the game. Right now a zone d is fairly easy to run because the cup really only has to move ~30 yards side to side. With a full football width the zone would have to move over 40 yards side to side. Add to that the additional amount of room to make cuts and it seems like the new field dimensions would kill zone d. Thoughts?
j mac
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105447 is a reply to message #105443] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 13:41 |
Occupy_Ultimate
Messages: 4
Registered: October 2011 |
Junior Member |
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It looks like some of the teams are using UltiVillage to promote their product.
http://www.columbuscranes.com/
1. I wonder what Ultivillage thinks of this.
2. If I was a player in one of the videos (sadly I'm not good enough), I'd be against someone trying to profit off of my team's hard work. AUDL is trying to sell a new brand of ultimate, but they have a team using video of a team playing USAU rules.
3. I'm all for a professional league, and while I wish these guys the best, I would rather see the established club teams be a part of it.
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| Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105449 is a reply to message #105443] |
Thu, 13 October 2011 13:50 |
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008 |
Senior Member |
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Josh,
I think people really want to support this idea. Most of us who have been involved with Ultimate for a long time have often dreamed of either seeing or playing professional Ultimate. Most of us clamor for the sport to have legitimate recognition and growth. I told you the same when we first spoke and met a couple years back.
Kudos to you for the vision. I'm actually impressed that you found anyone to buy into your plan at all, so perhaps there is some hope. But you have yet to provide any credible information or answers about this, either on this forum or in personal emails (although it has been some time since our last conversation).
The Ultimate community is used to being marginalized, being seen as a joke, or not taken seriously by other sports, schools, media outlets, businesses, parks departments, talk shows, and even our own families. What are doing to improve this? The criticisms in this thread and others are not unfounded, they are based upon observations of what you've shown so far.
What are the wrong assumptions? What are we getting wrong? What are we missing? What can you offer to the Ultimate community that we have yet to see?
I want this to succeed. I will gladly eat crow if it happens. Feel free to prove us wrong. Give us some information. Give us something. But until then, we will continue to opine about our observations, which are based upon a working knowledge of the sport.
You have my email. You also have this forum. And your website. And Facebook. And Twitter. You have lots of opportunity to spark interest and provide information about the AUDL and Ultimate in general. Go for it. And good luck.
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