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Home » RSD » RSD Posts » PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! (Officially introducing the AUDL)
PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105394] Thu, 13 October 2011 09:14 Go to next message
joshmoore7
Messages: 30
Registered: February 2011
Member
The American Ultimate Disc League is proud to announce the formation of a new professional Ultimate league, coming this April 2012. Today the AUDL put out it's first national press release, which can be viewed here:

http://www.onlineprnews.com/news/174368-1318016661-the-ameri can-ultimate-disc-league-audl-to-begin-in-2012.html

We would like to thank the members of this forum that have offered thoughts, support and involvement over the past several months, and welcome all who have interest in what we are doing to learn more. We are encouraging the Ultimate community to engage within the AUDL as players, coaches, officials, sponsors, or fans, and help take the sport to another level. We invite you to visit the league and team websites and follow us on Facebook and Twitter.

In Ultimate,

Josh Moore, President
American Ultimate Disc League
www.theaudl.com
info@theaudl.com
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105396 is a reply to message #105394] Thu, 13 October 2011 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnAllen
Messages: 68
Registered: March 2011
Member
lotta good players out in indianapolis? buffalo? with one city represented at nationals this year (and a bottom one at that), it would be interesting to see what sort of product and quality would get put out.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105398 is a reply to message #105396] Thu, 13 October 2011 09:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ultimatesamwood
Messages: 68
Registered: December 2008
Member
JohnAllen wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 12:25
lotta good players out in indianapolis?


A number of Madcow's players are based in and around Indianapolis.

You might remember Madcow as an elite club team who has made Nationals in the past and lost this year in the game-to-go.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105400 is a reply to message #105398] Thu, 13 October 2011 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
homrbush
Messages: 429
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
I've yet to see anywhere what the players are getting paid to play in this professional league.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105401 is a reply to message #105400] Thu, 13 October 2011 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mvuong
Messages: 709
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
Connecticut Constitution? Really? Also Detroit's name must be super extreme with the added x in there.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105402 is a reply to message #105400] Thu, 13 October 2011 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bulb
Messages: 1093
Registered: September 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Senior Member
Division championships on the same weekend as Wildwood? There goes the Philadelphia team.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105403 is a reply to message #105400] Thu, 13 October 2011 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
keg
Messages: 126
Registered: December 2008
Senior Member
not a lot of info on the philly team page. Any idea when teams will be posting tryout schedules/coaches/managers/etc?
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105404 is a reply to message #105402] Thu, 13 October 2011 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Bulb wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 12:59
Division championships on the same weekend as Wildwood? There goes the Philadelphia team.


Whoever this mysterious Philadelphia owner is will probably be surprised when their entire fan base chooses to go play in their SL game instead of attending home games.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105405 is a reply to message #105404] Thu, 13 October 2011 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bulb
Messages: 1093
Registered: September 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Senior Member
Alex Peters wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 13:03
Bulb wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 12:59
Division championships on the same weekend as Wildwood? There goes the Philadelphia team.


Whoever this mysterious Philadelphia owner is will probably be surprised when their entire fan base chooses to go play in their SL game instead of attending home games.

Well, the owners are apparently Katrel Kelly and David Fitzgerald:

http://www.philadelphiaspinners.com/index.php/team/players-a -coachesgroup1/philly-spinners

Some quick Google'ing leads me to believe that David is the assistant coach of West Catholic High School's freshman football team, and Katrel Kelly is a rapper:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-h-fitzgerald-jr/32/572/ba5

http://www.britishhiphop.co.uk/features/interviews/trel_mack .html

I am convinced this is a joke.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105406 is a reply to message #105404] Thu, 13 October 2011 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mankind
Messages: 31
Registered: October 2008
Member
God forbid someone actually go out and try to make a professional league. Refs, rule changes to make the game more watchable, games played in stadiums....what terrible ideas. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but it's hard for me to see why this is a bad thing or worth bashing it on a public forum.

Considering I've been playing ultimate for 10 years and have been paid approximately (complete wild ass guess) -$5,000 a year for it I am pretty excited for the opportunity to play for a net zero cost. I'm looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105407 is a reply to message #105406] Thu, 13 October 2011 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Mankind wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 13:12
Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but it's hard for me to see why this is a bad thing or worth bashing it on a public forum.


It's not the concepts, it's the execution and the lack of information. Some of the rule changes seem almost arbitrary and poorly thought out.

Maybe it'll work, but I don't see it doing any better than Kronum, which is ridiculously obscure but still seems to have far, far better funding, execution and technology (sweet trailers and video recaps of games and stats on their website) than the AUDL.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105408 is a reply to message #105394] Thu, 13 October 2011 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jorhyne
Messages: 90
Registered: April 2010
Member
What I don't understand is why they didn't reach out and try to build the league with existing clubs, or at least work with them in developing their plans. The ultimate community is so tight knit, it would've seemed logical to try to tap into that instead of working from the outside in with "owners" who don't seem to have much experience or knowledge of ultimate.

This will be fun to watch no matter what happens.

Jordan
Madcow #33, future Columbus Crane?!?!?!?!!?
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105410 is a reply to message #105407] Thu, 13 October 2011 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bulb
Messages: 1093
Registered: September 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Senior Member
Mankind wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 13:12
Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't but it's hard for me to see why this is a bad thing or worth bashing it on a public forum.

Who's bashing it?
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105411 is a reply to message #105394] Thu, 13 October 2011 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rsdaccount
Messages: 125
Registered: March 2011
Senior Member
How much would it cost to buy a club team like PoNY?
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105412 is a reply to message #105411] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Foxx
Messages: 5
Registered: May 2010
Junior Member
A professional league? Wow, this is big news. Any idea what the average salary is per player? Where is the funding coming from to support player salaries, insurance, expenses, travel, promotion, etc...? This sounds like a pretty big endeavor!
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105413 is a reply to message #105398] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnAllen
Messages: 68
Registered: March 2011
Member
hmm this kind of proves my point - madcow has one win against any team at nationals.

point is not to bash any player or team. but just imagine what revolver players would think watching this league.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105414 is a reply to message #105412] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Does anyone care to speculate how this can be viable/profitable? Where will the money come from? Where will the players come from? Where will the fans come from?

Does anybody know anyone who is involved with this venture so far who has any demonstrable knowledge of the sport?

This would truly be awesome if it took off, and the Ultimate community should root for something like this to work. But it would also be nice to see some credibility.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105415 is a reply to message #105405] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mgd.mitch
Messages: 1207
Registered: January 2009
Senior Member
Bulb wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 13:10

I am convinced this is a joke.
If it isn't, he sure is trying REALLY hard to make it look like one.

My guess is "joke" as well. The choice of cities, the lack of information about any players, etc, etc.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105416 is a reply to message #105415] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Previous threads on this topic for anyone looking to get up to speed on the disucssion:

http://www.rsdnospam.com/index.php?t=msg&th=2478&pre vloaded=1&&start=0

http://www.rsdnospam.com/index.php?t=msg&th=35539&go to=101849&#msg_101849
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105417 is a reply to message #105415] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
forceflick
Messages: 21
Registered: April 2011
Junior Member
It looks like Indy is having a combine on October 30. So we won't get much information on players until then.

Something else is every team website looks different, and with the exception of a couple, they look really bad. Every NFL team's website looks basically the same. Helps legitimize it, and there is barely anything that legitimizes this league, as of right now.

I agree we should be excited for this league, and I am. Let's just hope it does more good than harm.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105418 is a reply to message #105415] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
alanh
Messages: 59
Registered: October 2010
Member
Good luck to the organizers. I'd pay to see it at least once if they come to my area.

I would suggest that they expand their ruleset significantly. For example, there is no mention of what defines a foul, positioning before a pull, and it reads like momentum carrying the disc into the endzone would result in a score. Also, there is no mention of what happens when play stops (do player freeze?), how continuation works, picks seem to be legal (intentional rule change?), or how the yardage penalties are assessed.

On specific question I see that needs a lot of expansion: how does the clock work? Is it stopped time (like in Basketball: clock runs only when disc/ball is in play), semi-stopped (like in US Football: clock runs during possession, sometimes between plays, and stops after scores), or running (like Soccer: runs continuously whether or not anything is happening on the field or not). What rules are there to balance against delay-of-game tactics?

Innovation and experimentation such as this are good things for the sport. Now, if it's all a joke that's fine, but I don't know why someone would waste that kind of time/money/effort....

-alan


Alan Hoyle
alan@tfda.org
http://www.tfda.org/
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105420 is a reply to message #105416] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
homrbush
Messages: 429
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
Ran into someone who was contacted to coach the Indy team. Says the league is on the up and up; didn't have time for in-depth talk about it.

I'm 50/50 on whether it's a joke.
PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105421 is a reply to message #105415] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Marput
Messages: 991
Registered: June 2010
Location: Columbia Missouri
Senior Member
The guy graduated from my neck of the woods, Mizzou (MUtant ultimate country, Missouri). Never met him.

Earned a degree in accounting... is what he told me in recent e-mail.

Who knows, maybe he's a numbers, fundraising & marketing genius.

Peter Mc
MDSC
(MUtants staff advisor since ~ 2003)
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105422 is a reply to message #105420] Thu, 13 October 2011 11:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
I wouldn't call it a joke (as in funny haha) - just very, very poorly conceived.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105423 is a reply to message #105417] Thu, 13 October 2011 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Squeaks
Messages: 13
Registered: April 2009
Junior Member
On Oct 13, 2:35 pm, Force Flick <forceflickp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It looks like Indy is having a combine on October 30.

This is the kind of poorly thought out thing that generates criticism.
Holding the combine during club nationals? Seriously, who thought that
was a good idea? Don't they want these elite players on the teams?
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105424 is a reply to message #105423] Thu, 13 October 2011 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mgd.mitch
Messages: 1207
Registered: January 2009
Senior Member
Squeaks wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 15:00

This is the kind of poorly thought out thing that generates criticism. Holding the combine during club nationals? Seriously, who thought that was a good idea? Don't they want these elite players on the teams?
Two possibilities. First, since this is likely not real, it doesn't matter. Second, on the off chance this is real and they are dumb enough to choose cities outside of current centers of interest for the sport... choosing a date that coincides with nationals wouldn't matter since they only really one or two areas that are currently representing elite ultimate in the first place.

It's these kinds of details that make this attempt at a joke a very bad one, or an attempt at a real business a horrible one.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105427 is a reply to message #105394] Thu, 13 October 2011 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Reggie Fanelli
Messages: 1958
Registered: September 2011
Senior Member
> Josh Moore, President
> American Ultimate Disc Leaguewww.theaudl.com
> mailto:i...@theaudl.com
~~~~~~~~~~


---The UOA should be officiating this League.
.....and training all the officials.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105428 is a reply to message #105427] Thu, 13 October 2011 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Buffalo looks legit, find the typos! http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.244747558903991.626 22.199397953438952&type=3


Louisville looks legit, you can become an unpaid intern if you work long hours and weekends to support the team! http://www.internships.com/posting/sports-marketing-intern-i 8047


Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105429 is a reply to message #105427] Thu, 13 October 2011 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Reggie Fanelli wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 14:16


---The UOA should be officiating this League.
.....and training all the officials.


Hey Mike, I thought it was mentioned in a previous thread that you and Josh Moore were getting in touch to discuss the UOA doing the officiating. What became of that? Is it gonna happen?
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105433 is a reply to message #105428] Thu, 13 October 2011 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mgd.mitch
Messages: 1207
Registered: January 2009
Senior Member
Baer wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 15:28
Louisville looks legit, you can become an unpaid intern if you work long hours and weekends to support the team! http://www.internships.com/posting/sports-marketing-intern-i 8047

Quote:
Company: Kentucky Ultimate.com
Address: 325 E. Main Street, Suite 150
Location: Louisville, KY
It might be a little awkward working out of a UPS store. Guess they will just work from home and just attend meetings at the UPS Store.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105437 is a reply to message #105433] Thu, 13 October 2011 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jeremy.mcnamara
Messages: 519
Registered: November 2008
Location: Albany
Senior Member
Regarding player salaries, or lack of, here is a direct quote from his Franchise Opportunity document that he emailed me:

"Salaries of players/coaches this is negotiable by team, but many players may play for free given the fact that playing in organized leagues usually costs THEM money for participation."

The numbers in the document are fanciful and would, at a minimum, take hundreds of hours to achieve the sponsorship he dreams of. If anyone wants me to email them the document so you can see the bullshit yourself, feel free to email me.

j mac
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105438 is a reply to message #105437] Thu, 13 October 2011 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
jeremy.mcnamara wrote on Thu, 13 October 2011 14:54
Regarding player salaries, or lack of, here is a direct quote from his Franchise Opportunity document that he emailed me:

"Salaries of players/coaches this is negotiable by team, but many players may play for free given the fact that playing in organized leagues usually costs THEM money for participation."

The numbers in the document are fanciful and would, at a minimum, take hundreds of hours to achieve the sponsorship he dreams of. If anyone wants me to email them the document so you can see the bullshit yourself, feel free to email me.

j mac


I have an older copy of the same proposal, when he was trying to get teams in the midwest, in towns that had no sizable Ultimate community to speak of. He speculated that, in addition to sponsorships and TV revenue, profits could come from a "conservative" estimate of 2000 paid fans at each game.

In subsequent email conversations with him, when I kindly pointed out the lack of rational thinking, he stated that even 500 fans could generate $25,000 in profit per game.

LMAO!
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105439 is a reply to message #105394] Thu, 13 October 2011 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doctor
Messages: 247
Registered: April 2010
Location: H-town
Senior Member
Occupy Bolder
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105440 is a reply to message #105439] Thu, 13 October 2011 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mimmo
Messages: 587
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
i think this is a joke
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105441 is a reply to message #105429] Thu, 13 October 2011 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Reggie Fanelli
Messages: 1958
Registered: September 2011
Senior Member
> Hey Mike, I thought it was mentioned in a previous thread
> that you and Josh Moore were getting in touch to discuss the
> UOA doing the officiating. What became of that? Is it gonna
> happen?
~~~~~~~~

---obviously....we'd be thrilled beyond belief to help out!
i want to officiate games....
and i know jason and i would train the heck out officials in the areas
where the teams will be located!
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105442 is a reply to message #105438] Thu, 13 October 2011 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Oct 13, 4:05 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In subsequent email conversations with him, when I kindly
> pointed out the lack of rational thinking, he stated that
> even 500 fans could generate $25,000 in profit per game.
>
> LMAO!

How many fans were there for nexgen?

I think they said there were something like 500 for Seattle, paying (I
think) $5 each. Which is $2500.

At Philly I would estimate there were about 300, paying nothing.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105443 is a reply to message #105440] Thu, 13 October 2011 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joshmoore7
Messages: 30
Registered: February 2011
Member
Thank you to those that have contacted me about getting involved. We realize this endeavor is not going to be received with excitement from everybody, but our goal is to put ourselves out there for those on the site that may have interest. It appears the same individuals that have been vocal critics in the past are the same ones now. It seems a small handful go out of their way to discredit every thing we do every time the AUDL is mentioned, and that is unfortunate. We understand that we have things to clean up over the next six months prior to our first game and are working to do so. I encourage anybody interested in learning more about the league to contact me, as opposed to outdated documents being sent without permission.

For those that have offered positive feedback - we will consider putting more information up around our rules. Our rulebook is pretty long and we did not want to overwhelm somebody new to the sport, but rather, hit the highlights on the website. We will work to make sure the full rules are out there for the hardcore players and fans. Additionally, we are currently working to update and standardize our team websites, which should look very nice when it is all done. If anybody is interested in learning about a team's plans for player compensation, tryouts/training camps, etc. please feel free to reach out to the respective owner, as these will vary between teams. Finally, if anybody has any questions, concerns, comments about the league, I invite you to e-mail me and discuss any time. I would much rather have a conversation rather than see wrong assumptions being posted on a public forum.

Thanks!
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105446 is a reply to message #105443] Thu, 13 October 2011 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jeremy.mcnamara
Messages: 519
Registered: November 2008
Location: Albany
Senior Member
Putting aside for now the fact that the league is destined for failure; I have been wondering how the modified field dimensions will affect the game. Right now a zone d is fairly easy to run because the cup really only has to move ~30 yards side to side. With a full football width the zone would have to move over 40 yards side to side. Add to that the additional amount of room to make cuts and it seems like the new field dimensions would kill zone d. Thoughts?

j mac
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105447 is a reply to message #105443] Thu, 13 October 2011 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Occupy_Ultimate
Messages: 4
Registered: October 2011
Junior Member
It looks like some of the teams are using UltiVillage to promote their product.

http://www.columbuscranes.com/

1. I wonder what Ultivillage thinks of this.

2. If I was a player in one of the videos (sadly I'm not good enough), I'd be against someone trying to profit off of my team's hard work. AUDL is trying to sell a new brand of ultimate, but they have a team using video of a team playing USAU rules.

3. I'm all for a professional league, and while I wish these guys the best, I would rather see the established club teams be a part of it.
Re: PROFESSIONAL ULTIMATE IS HERE! [message #105449 is a reply to message #105443] Thu, 13 October 2011 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Josh,

I think people really want to support this idea. Most of us who have been involved with Ultimate for a long time have often dreamed of either seeing or playing professional Ultimate. Most of us clamor for the sport to have legitimate recognition and growth. I told you the same when we first spoke and met a couple years back.

Kudos to you for the vision. I'm actually impressed that you found anyone to buy into your plan at all, so perhaps there is some hope. But you have yet to provide any credible information or answers about this, either on this forum or in personal emails (although it has been some time since our last conversation).

The Ultimate community is used to being marginalized, being seen as a joke, or not taken seriously by other sports, schools, media outlets, businesses, parks departments, talk shows, and even our own families. What are doing to improve this? The criticisms in this thread and others are not unfounded, they are based upon observations of what you've shown so far.

What are the wrong assumptions? What are we getting wrong? What are we missing? What can you offer to the Ultimate community that we have yet to see?

I want this to succeed. I will gladly eat crow if it happens. Feel free to prove us wrong. Give us some information. Give us something. But until then, we will continue to opine about our observations, which are based upon a working knowledge of the sport.

You have my email. You also have this forum. And your website. And Facebook. And Twitter. You have lots of opportunity to spark interest and provide information about the AUDL and Ultimate in general. Go for it. And good luck.
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