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ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52602] Thu, 18 February 2010 12:14 Go to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
It sounds as tho I have been suspended by the UPA for a year...again.
This time I am suspended, i hear, from organizing a tournament that
hopes to gain UPA Sanctioning.

Why?
Who were the major power players in my being suspended?
George Mason Ultimate, from what i understand.
They didn't like being encouraged to "cleat up" to play.
They certainly didn't take a bit of good natured heckling very well as
they were, unannounced, walking off the fields last weekend.

The biggest win in the history of George Mason Ultimate....preventing
Mike G from being a TD for a UPA sanctioned event.

Nice work guys!
don't mind all those teams who you are fuck*ng out of sanctioned
games....they won't mind.
they DID....however....wonder why i even invited you in the first
place, they saying, that you have a long history of quitting
tournaments. me...i don't know that....just what i was told...and
saw.

mighty GMU....hand in hand with the upa...trying to prevent the rise
of the UOA.
welp.....
..
..
..
..
..
..
guess again!
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52604 is a reply to message #52602] Thu, 18 February 2010 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BJones
Messages: 253
Registered: April 2009
Senior Member
Are you actually suspended? Is there anything the teams that were
there that weekend can do on your behalf?

On Feb 18, 3:14 pm, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It sounds as tho I have been suspended by the UPA for a year...again.
> This time I am suspended, i hear, from organizing a tournament that
> hopes to gain UPA Sanctioning.
>
> Why?
> Who were the major power players in my being suspended?
> George Mason Ultimate, from what i understand.
> They didn't like being encouraged to "cleat up" to play.
> They certainly didn't take a bit of good natured heckling very well as
> they were, unannounced, walking off the fields last weekend.
>
> The biggest win in the history of George Mason Ultimate....preventing
> Mike G from being a TD for a UPA sanctioned event.
>
> Nice work guys!
> don't mind all those teams who you are fuck*ng out of sanctioned
> games....they won't mind.
> they DID....however....wonder why i even invited you in the first
> place, they saying, that you have a long history of quitting
> tournaments.  me...i don't know that....just what i was told...and
> saw.
>
> mighty GMU....hand in hand with the upa...trying to prevent the rise
> of the UOA.
> welp.....
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> guess again!
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52605 is a reply to message #52602] Thu, 18 February 2010 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joe.ribaudo
Messages: 165
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Feb 18, 3:14 pm, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It sounds as tho I have been suspended by the UPA for a year...again.
> This time I am suspended, i hear, from organizing a tournament that
> hopes to gain UPA Sanctioning.
>
> Why?
> Who were the major power players in my being suspended?
> George Mason Ultimate, from what i understand.
> They didn't like being encouraged to "cleat up" to play.
> They certainly didn't take a bit of good natured heckling very well as
> they were, unannounced, walking off the fields last weekend.
>
> The biggest win in the history of George Mason Ultimate....preventing
> Mike G from being a TD for a UPA sanctioned event.
>
> Nice work guys!
> don't mind all those teams who you are fuck*ng out of sanctioned
> games....they won't mind.
> they DID....however....wonder why i even invited you in the first
> place, they saying, that you have a long history of quitting
> tournaments.  me...i don't know that....just what i was told...and
> saw.
>
> mighty GMU....hand in hand with the upa...trying to prevent the rise
> of the UOA.
> welp.....
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> guess again!

so the upa suspended gmu for a year also right? since they refused to
play in the upa sanctioned event that they were attending?

and they MUST have suspended cultimate for a year for essentially
taking thousands of UPA members' money for a tournament that never
happened. RIGHT?
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52606 is a reply to message #52604] Thu, 18 February 2010 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hoover.addison
Messages: 16
Registered: January 2009
Junior Member
From an outside perspective, I think I can honestly say - whether
people like you or not - this is pretty ridiculous if it's all
factual. If there's a spring tournament/series that seems in line
with where Ultimate should be headed, I'd have to say its the 8s.
It's a shame that what is a really positive step in college Ultimate
is being marred right out of the gates. I'd actually second BJones'
thoughts that I'd like to see other teams with far more positive and
legitimate feedback provide their insights on this topic.

Sorry to hear this news.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52608 is a reply to message #52604] Thu, 18 February 2010 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> Are you actually suspended? Is there anything the teams that were
> there that weekend can do on your behalf?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---i have been told by my buddy Jason Weddle that he and I are
suspended for ONE YEAR from ORGANIZING UPA Sanctioned events.

that is to say...that we are NOT allowed to host an event that the UPA
will consider sanctioning....which....i suppose in this day and
age...is a big deal.

Thank you very much for offering some help.
if you are truly inclined to share your opinions about the weekend and
whatever you think may help or hurt....contact the UPA directly at
1800-upa-geth.
speek to Will or Melanie or Anna(?)
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52609 is a reply to message #52606] Thu, 18 February 2010 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> From an outside perspective, I think I can honestly say - whether
> people like you or not - this is pretty ridiculous if it's all
> factual.  If there's a spring tournament/series that seems in line
> with where Ultimate should be headed, I'd have to say its the 8s.
> It's a shame that what is a really positive step in college Ultimate
> is being marred right out of the gates.  I'd actually second BJones'
> thoughts that I'd like to see other teams with far more positive and
> legitimate feedback provide their insights on this topic.
>
> Sorry to hear this news.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---HELL....i WISH that the UPA had taken the time to TALK TO ME ABOUT
IT....before telling UOA Founder-co Jason Weddle that I was suspended
for a year from hosting sanctioned events!

they took the word of a 19 year old know it all pompous
pansie......without asking me about anything.

they took what this kid told them...and decided it was enough to block
our UPA Sanctioning(which i don't care much about, but the teams sure
see it as a draw to an event)

the GMU captain threatened me at the site...."you're scared of the
upa, aren't you? you're scared what might happen if they don't
sanction your tournaments, aren't you"

"not scared of the upa....but we'd like to continue having them
sanction our events", i told him......

he then proceeded to tear up the entry fee check that he brought for
us, despite saying that his school needed more paper work in order to
process the entry fee...........again...despite Jason having sent him
the paper work he needed days and days in advance.

this kid........he's got some real spirit
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52611 is a reply to message #52609] Thu, 18 February 2010 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Wow. The dirty politics of Ultimate?

If this is true, I can see a lot of assumptions being made based on
the little that we know from MG’s post and what we think we know from
recent and not-so-recent history. Here are some of the assumptions/
accusations that might rise out of this topic (hypothetically, of
course):

- Mike G’s abrasiveness and vitriol got him in trouble again?
- The UPA was looking for an excuse to stick it to Mike G and/or the
UOA?
- Jason Weddle is banging his head against the wall in frustration?
- The UPA made a decision based on one team’s complaints without
conducting a good faith investigation for more details, since the
complaint suited their agenda?
- The UPA deserves the benefit of the doubt and tried to do the right
thing for the sport?
- George Mason had a legitimate, serious complaint, and we don’t know
the whole story?
- A lot of teams will be even more concerned about their schedule and
getting sanctioned games slated?
- The UPA will continue to refuse to acknowledge any thoughts of
progressiveness regarding officiating?
- Unfortunately, many of those with the most creative ideas on how to
advance the sport have poor social and political skills and create
irreconcilable rifts with the UPA, the only organization with the
current capabilities to make sweeping changes to the game?

Some or all of the above may be accurate. It should be interesting to
see what comes of this…

My prediction: Rumors (and conspiracy theories) will fly and teeth
will gnash for a couple of days. Several pages into this thread (or
maybe on one of several new threads), someone from George Mason will
explain their side. A few days and a few pages later, we’ll hear some
sort of explanation from the UPA which doesn’t really explain much.
Rumors and teeth gnashing will continue.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52612 is a reply to message #52608] Thu, 18 February 2010 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ulticritic
Messages: 8204
Registered: April 2009
Senior Member
On Feb 18, 4:18 pm, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ---i have been told by my buddy Jason Weddle that he and I are
> suspended for ONE YEAR from ORGANIZING UPA Sanctioned events.


and are we to understand that this is because you gave the gmu guys
shit for bailing on games????? seriously??? can they actually do
that just because of a discruntal team complains about this, that or
the other at one of their "sanctioning" events?

If they are looking for more ways to alienate the membership, they
sure are doing a good job.

and could it be the rule enforcement process that the upa is using is
whats behind such a move?
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52615 is a reply to message #52611] Thu, 18 February 2010 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Johnny Chimpo
Messages: 34
Registered: December 2008
Member
I really don't know the whole story but I'll offer my perspective since I was in attendance and people seem curious.

George Mason did not play their final two games of Saturday. I think this was primarily due to the condition of the fields (which were sloppy, but certainly playable) and the frigid temperature.

They showed up on Sunday and several of their players talked to Mike (and possibly other observers) for awhile while games were underway. I was told that a heated argument erupted after GMU made it clear that they didn't plan on playing. The fields were even more muddy than Saturday but it was sunny and quite a bit warmer, not an awful day by any means. After at least 15 minutes of discussion the GMU players left and there was some yelling from both parties as they walked off the fields.

Someone later told me that there had been some smack talk and shoving, but I'm not sure if they had witnessed it or were going by what someone else had told them.

Whatever the case this is certainly an unfortunate development. Mike is working harder than just about anyone to put on quality tournaments and push the game in the right direction and unless he did something really out of line it doesn't seem fair. Hopefully GMU will offer their side of the story at some point.

-Jack Frenchu
TCNJ #22
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52616 is a reply to message #52615] Thu, 18 February 2010 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> Someone later told me that there had been some smack talk
> and shoving, but I'm not sure if they had witnessed it or
> were going by what someone else had told them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---no pushing, no shoving.

i said "cleat up" as they stood around as game time approached......
their captain was super dramatic and replied with "don't question my
decision regarding my team"...something close to that.
all i was doing, was encouraging them to play...not questioning
anything he was saying or doing...didn't KNOW what they were
doing...just saying the classic "cleat up" quote.
his reply "don't question my decision" popped into my head as they
walked into the parking lot......
i hollered..."question your captain"....because i WANT everyone to
have KILLER memories about playing in crazy conditions.
do you have any crazy memories of playing in weird conditions?
are the memories better for having played, or for having driven away
from them?
at any rate...boy...this kid went crazy when he heard that sweet
heckle.
he came over and wanted to talk about it like he was above
me....which...in this atmosphere...he ain't.

he couldn't handle one tiny heckle, that was really his own quote.
don't question my decision to leave this tournament while all the
other teams play on!

ha.
this kid!
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52618 is a reply to message #52616] Thu, 18 February 2010 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
throw
Messages: 743
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
I'd bet my current set of teeth the George Mason complaint (whatever
it was) was simply the last straw for the UPA.

Yes, this definitely sucks for the teams involved.....sorry to see it
happen....but from a pr perspective it make Complete sense.

You have nobody to blame but yourself gerics.

Peter Mc
MDSC
Columbia, MO
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52619 is a reply to message #52616] Thu, 18 February 2010 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Krayzie
Messages: 2
Registered: February 2010
Junior Member
> ---no pushing, no shoving.

Lies. Definitely happened.

I guess grown men probably shouldn't try to fight college freshmen.

-Jarnail
former GMU player.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52620 is a reply to message #52605] Thu, 18 February 2010 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Train Wreck
Messages: 154
Registered: April 2009
Senior Member
On Feb 18, 4:06 pm, boom city <joe.riba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 3:14 pm, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > It sounds as tho I have been suspended by the UPA for a year...again.
> > This time I am suspended, i hear, from organizing a tournament that
> > hopes to gain UPA Sanctioning.
>
> > Why?
> > Who were the major power players in my being suspended?
> > George Mason Ultimate, from what i understand.
> > They didn't like being encouraged to "cleat up" to play.
> > They certainly didn't take a bit of good natured heckling very well as
> > they were, unannounced, walking off the fields last weekend.
>
> > The biggest win in the history of George Mason Ultimate....preventing
> > Mike G from being a TD for a UPA sanctioned event.
>
> > Nice work guys!
> > don't mind all those teams who you are fuck*ng out of sanctioned
> > games....they won't mind.
> > they DID....however....wonder why i even invited you in the first
> > place, they saying, that you have a long history of quitting
> > tournaments.  me...i don't know that....just what i was told...and
> > saw.
>
> > mighty GMU....hand in hand with the upa...trying to prevent the rise
> > of the UOA.
> > welp.....
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > .
> > guess again!
>
> so the upa suspended gmu for a year also right? since they refused to
> play in the upa sanctioned event that they were attending?
>
> and they MUST have suspended cultimate for a year for essentially
> taking thousands of UPA members' money for a tournament that never
> happened. RIGHT?

Okay, this is crap. When we got to the captains meeting on Saturday,
one of the rules that you and Jason listed was that everyone was
required to play all of their games. It's their fault for bailing when
a good amount of teams were braving the cold and playing. Their
actions make the rest of the teams that were at this tournament look
bad.

In regards to this action by the UPA: you are not helping yourselves.
Though you may thing that us playing in this tournament may have been
ill-advised due to health issues, this is not the way to deal with it.
Teams have to have 10 sanctioned games and this action punishes them
as well as the UOA. I have said previously that this tournament had
been one of my favorite ultimate experiences. I've played in cold,
rain and snow and during those tournaments, the TDs did not have the
poise that MG, Jason and the rest of the UOA observers on hand showed.

I don't know what to say, I'm totally shocked at this. You can't give
teams that go to a tournament, then bail and threaten the TDs (as well
as rip up their check so I've heard), the power to suspend an
association whose interest is for the advancement of the sport on the
collegiate and club level.

I'm disgusted as an ultimate player and I don't care if people dislike
my opinions, this is crap.

Above are my opinions and are not shared by the players on my team,
nor my co-captains.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52622 is a reply to message #52619] Thu, 18 February 2010 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
frizbrains
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Feb 18, 5:19 pm, Krayzie <jba...@gmu.edu> wrote:
> > ---no pushing, no shoving.
>
> Lies. Definitely happened.
>
> I guess grown men probably shouldn't try to fight college freshmen.
>
> -Jarnail
> former GMU player.

Were you there? If so, why not share what happened? Because as the
story stands right now, this makes no sense.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52623 is a reply to message #52622] Thu, 18 February 2010 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joe.ribaudo
Messages: 165
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Feb 18, 5:23 pm, frizbrains <frizbra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 18, 5:19 pm, Krayzie <jba...@gmu.edu> wrote:
>
> > > ---no pushing, no shoving.
>
> > Lies. Definitely happened.
>
> > I guess grown men probably shouldn't try to fight college freshmen.
>
> > -Jarnail
> > former GMU player.
>
> Were you there?  If so, why not share what happened?  Because as the
> story stands right now, this makes no sense.



of course he was there. im sure all former GMU players go to the
tournaments their former team is about to bail from. boo hoo. its
cold.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52638 is a reply to message #52602] Thu, 18 February 2010 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bslade86
Messages: 357
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Mike, if I may ask, is the suspension due to a violation of "health and safety guidelines," or "destruction of playing surfaces"? I didn't see any other grounds for such an abrupt suspension. Unless you sucker-punched the kid... and even then I don't see that covered in the sanctioning guidelines.

As an aside, you can go after deadbeat teams in petty court if they refuse to pay.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52639 is a reply to message #52623] Thu, 18 February 2010 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hoover.addison
Messages: 16
Registered: January 2009
Junior Member
> > > -Jarnail
> > > former GMU player.
>
> > Were you there?  If so, why not share what happened?  Because as the
> > story stands right now, this makes no sense.
>
> of course he was there. im sure all former GMU players go to the
> tournaments their former team is about to bail from.

First, I thoroughly enjoyed this comment boom city - kudos.

Secondly, as a participant last year at Easterns (including the All
Star game) I can see how MG can rub people the wrong way about his
opinions and innovations (although I'm probably on his side most of
the time). However, the man runs a tight ship, and I have no doubts
that even with the weather conditions as they were, all necessary
precautions and communications were taken to keep all teams in the
loop. That being said, it sounds to me like GMU made a commitment
(likely a contractual one, MG can you confirm?) to play all games.
And considering 7/8ths of the attendees went on without as much as a
peep, it sounds like the UPA should really be sanctioning GMU for
breaking the confines of an agreed upon UPA sanctioned event.

If there was shouting/pushing/trash talking, I'm going to go ahead and
support MG/observers/organizers on this one - sort of sounds like they
deserved it.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52641 is a reply to message #52623] Thu, 18 February 2010 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hoover.addison
Messages: 16
Registered: January 2009
Junior Member
> > > -Jarnail
> > > former GMU player.

> > Were you there? If so, why not share what happened? Because as the
> > story stands right now, this makes no sense.

> of course he was there. im sure all former GMU players go to the
> tournaments their former team is about to bail from.

First, I thoroughly enjoyed this comment boom city - kudos.

Secondly, as a participant last year at Easterns (including the All
Star game MG observed) I can see how MG can rub people the wrong way
about his
opinions and innovations (although I'm probably on his side most of
the time). However, the man runs a tight ship, and I have no doubts
that even with the weather conditions as they were, all necessary
precautions and communications were taken to keep all teams in the
loop. That being said, it sounds to me like GMU made a commitment
(likely a contractual one, MG can you confirm?) to play all games.
And considering 7/8ths of the attendees went on without as much as a
peep, it sounds like the UPA should really be sanctioning GMU for
breaking the confines of an agreed upon UPA sanctioned event.

If there was shouting/pushing/trash talking, I'm going to go ahead and
support MG/observers/organizers on this one - sort of sounds like they
deserved it.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52645 is a reply to message #52641] Thu, 18 February 2010 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
This is George Masons next tournament:
http://scores.upa.org/scores/#college-open/tournament/6881

Perhaps the TD's should be encouraged to cut them from the list (and
all future TD's for the rest of the year as well).
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52647 is a reply to message #52602] Thu, 18 February 2010 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
placido rapido
Messages: 32
Registered: June 2009
Member
On Feb 18, 12:14 pm, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It sounds as tho I have been suspended by the UPA for a year...again.
> This time I am suspended, i hear, from organizing a tournament that
> hopes to gain UPA Sanctioning.

WOW. Inconceivable, if true - I certainly would like to see the
official UPA statement on why they took this action. In general, I
cut the UPA some slack but it is awfully hard for me to envision a
scenario where they justify this w/o winding up with a whole omelet
full of egg on their face.

Mike probably won't remember me, but we observed a game together at
2004 UPA Collegiate Championship in Seattle (UCSD vs Cal?) and he was
the perfect co-observer: knowlegeable, direct, always checking in w/
me at breaks in the action to chat about previous plays and/or calls,
supportive of both teams as well as fellow observers. Additionally, I
have a distinct memory of him, at 2002 College Championships in
Spokane, walking the fields with a garbage bag picking up trash - he
wasn't a volunteer, wasn't an observer, he was UNCW coach and did this
because he wanted to help after spending the day coaching his team.
As a (mostly) Mike G observer from afar, Mike's love for this sport of
Ultimate is clear and strong - not only in the glory and joy of
playing, but in the actual nuts and bolts, the day-to-day crap that
needs to be done to keep things running smoothly.

I don't always agree with Mike and the way he comes across on RSD - to
paraphrase him, he sometimes says some goofy and queer things. As
someone who also cares deeply about the sport - and, admittedly, who
can also be abrasive on and off the field - I'll put up with Mike's
goofiness; he's working to move the game forward and the good far
outweighs the bad, in my opinion. He's a tireless advocate of self-
refereed Ultimate and the Observer system - in the ever-increasingly
contentious debate over self-refereed/Observers/Refs, I'm shocked that
the UPA would seek to alienate a strong ally like Mike. If, as it
appears from afar, this winds up being a petty power struggle over who
steers the direction of Observers in Ultimate then I, for one, am
extremely disappointed in whomever made the decision to ban Mike.
It's petty, it's mean, and it does absolutely no one a shred of good.

Eric Goetz
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52652 is a reply to message #52647] Thu, 18 February 2010 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MD
Messages: 98
Registered: September 2008
Member
Okay calm down everyone. This was posted in another thread by someone
else, but I thought I'd repost here for those that haven't seen it.
The UPA came out with a Public Statement today:

http://upa.org/upa/about/publicstatements/wilmington8s_sanct ioning

Posted on Feb. 18, 2010

On Wednesday, Feb. 17, the UPA received disturbing complaints from the
New Hanover County (N.C.) Parks and Recreation Department regarding
inappropriate use of the playing fields and subsequent damage to the
property during last weekend’s Wilmington 8’s Tournament (Feb. 13-14).
This event was sanctioned by the UPA. Due to the serious nature of the
complaints, as well as non-compliance with UPA-event sanctioning
guidelines and the signed contract for the event, we have informed the
event organizers that their privilege to act in the same capacity for
future UPA-sanctioned events has been revoked for one year. This
ruling is consistent with UPA policy for all sanctioned events.

However, due to another upcoming Wilmington 8’s Tournament that was
scheduled for this weekend (Feb. 20-21) and was previously sanctioned
by the UPA, we elected to offer an option for the event to be
sanctioned. After being provided this option – which required that
extra conditions be met in order to ensure adherence to UPA event
guidelines and codes of conduct – the organizers have elected not to
re-apply and have decided to hold the tournament as a non-sanctioned
event. As such, game results for the event will not count toward UPA
regular-season rankings.

It should be noted that the location of this weekend’s Wilmington 8’s
event will be changed because the New Hanover County Parks and
Recreation Department will not allow the tournament organizers to
return. In addition, a separate conduct issue is being investigated
following an alleged incident at last weekend’s event. The above-
mentioned revocation of UPA sanctioning privileges is not related to
this alleged incident.
Last updated 02/19/2010 - 01:40
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52653 is a reply to message #52647] Thu, 18 February 2010 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hoover.addison
Messages: 16
Registered: January 2009
Junior Member
It looks as though perhaps the basis for this entire thread may be off
the mark just a bit.....http://upa.org/upa/about/publicstatements/
wilmington8s_sanctioning

It sounds like the Wilmington 8s desire to play on such saturated
fields, and the subsequent damage that came of it, is the real issue
at hand.....with a potential secondary issue, not involved in this
sanctioning talk, may come later (obviously assuming this is the GMU
talk).

In this case, I'd be interested to see some photos or to know what the
New Hanover County Parks and Rec outlined as the rules and regulations
for this tournament. As I recall, last year's Easterns (were these
the same fields?) was pretty saturated as well and the fields were
unbelievalby torn up after Sunday play. I'd be interested to hear
MG's response to this new topic.

Hoove
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52658 is a reply to message #52618] Thu, 18 February 2010 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scpoulos14
Messages: 133
Registered: December 2009
Senior Member
Throw you truly are a chump. You act like you were there and concede that Mike G is in the wrong and should be suspended for a year from hosting upa-sanctioned events. This whole thing is ridiculous but not a surprising thing for the upa to do. kind of like not letting people try out for a team because they are apparently considered "too intense". bullshit I say. Let's hear it from those that had a positive experience playing in a Mike G run tourney. Also Mike, hit me back at scpoulos@gmail.com if you have a spot for me to observe any tournies in march.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52659 is a reply to message #52618] Thu, 18 February 2010 18:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scpoulos14
Messages: 133
Registered: December 2009
Senior Member
Come on Throw why you gotta be like that? You act like you were there and concede that Mike G is in the wrong and should be suspended for a year from hosting upa-sanctioned events. This whole thing is ridiculous but not a surprising thing for the upa to do. kind of like not letting people try out for a team because they are apparently considered "too intense". bullshit I say. Let's hear it from those that had a positive experience playing in a Mike G run tourney. Also Mike, hit me back at scpoulos@gmail.com if you have a spot for me to observe any tournies in march.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52660 is a reply to message #52653] Thu, 18 February 2010 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oreo
Messages: 28
Registered: February 2009
Junior Member
UPA fail
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52661 is a reply to message #52653] Thu, 18 February 2010 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
isaaew7
Messages: 18
Registered: December 2009
Junior Member
So it sounds as if, and correct me if I'm wrong, that George Mason Ultimate was not the primary reason that Mr. Gerics was suspended, and that instead it was because he allowed the tournament to continue on fields that were not fit for play and therefore caused a large amount of damage to those fields. It also sounds as if he and/or Mr. Weddle were given the opportunity to re-apply for the upcoming 8s tournament (on February 20-21) to be a UPA-sanctioned event (because the UPA had rescinded their sanction due to the complaints from the Park and Rec Department) and chose not to.

So it's not the UPA's fault that the 8s tournament this weekend isn't sanctioned? Why would Mr. Gerics and Mr. Weddle choose not to re-apply for sanctioning, especially after they said that they would like the event to be sanctioned since it is such a big draw for teams to attend the events. But the UPA blurb did mention that there were "extra conditions be met in order to ensure adherence to UPA event guidelines and codes of conduct." I'm curious to find out what those extra conditions were. Were they so extravagant as to not even consider re-applying for sanctioning, were they in fact considered and then deemed not worth it, or were they not considered because Mr. Gerics and Mr. Weddle were angry with the UPA's actions?
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52662 is a reply to message #52660] Thu, 18 February 2010 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thatguy
Messages: 15
Registered: December 2009
Junior Member

Mike & Jason - This release from the UPA seems odd. Mike's been going on and on about "cleat up" and George Mason, but never mentioned there was an opportunity to save this weekend's sanctioning. What the the UPA ask you to do to stay sanctioned?
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52672 is a reply to message #52659] Thu, 18 February 2010 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mimmo
Messages: 587
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Steve, did the UPA not allow you to try out for the National Team because they said you were too intense?

If that's true that's a pretty lame move to not even let you try out...I agree you're an "intense" player, but I don't see why that should keep you from trying out...were they afraid you were going to yell at somebody for dropping a pass or something? Or get really, really pumped up?


I have no idea what the field situation was like, or what agreements organizers now have to make when holding "sanctioned" events...so I'm gonna hesitate to lob in the outrage grenade on this issue, but it seems to me like they really didn't want to sanction Mike G's events (initial refusal to sanction) and were probably waiting for anything to go wrong so they could make an example of him.

And Throw...you are worse than Crazy Frank and Ulticritic put together.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52673 is a reply to message #52661] Thu, 18 February 2010 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
catalyst
Messages: 15
Registered: March 2009
Junior Member
to be quite honest, regardless of what happened, regardless of what
will come of the
next 8's, i think the idea of a mandatory 10 game "season" is
wrong...or at least needs way more developing than
just plopping it in this season.

what if you had a killer team that you want to keep secret all year?
(weird i know, but possible)
even more convincing of an argument, what if conditions across the
nation held
you back from going to a tournament or two? what then? these teams are
run by
the college, NOT the UPA. meaning your season and schedule is really
determined by your funding
and player availability. demanding X amount of games can be such a
disadvantage to SO many
teams due to SO many unpredictable circumstances.

the fact that the 8s wont be sanctioned shouldn't even matter....but
unfortunately the UPA
makes it matter. or shall i say, cultimate has made the UPA make it
matter. cultimate needs to
get lost. UPA needs to be flexible with circumstances which teams will
find themselves in that
will hinder their ability to make a "season" for themselves.

the whole UPA/Gerics thing.....its old hat. (and mikey, i always have
your back)
it actually reminds me of cheating NBA refs and Rasheed Wallace.

i just want to head to the beautiful coastal city of Wilmington, play
ultimate, and eat at Flaming Amy's.
(anyone going MUST go eat there by the way. best burritos of your
life)

warrior till i die.
g53
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52680 is a reply to message #52620] Fri, 19 February 2010 03:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
You can't give
> teams that go to a tournament, then bail and threaten the TDs (as well
> as rip up their check so I've heard), the power to suspend an
> association whose interest is for the advancement of the sport on the
> collegiate and club level
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---agreed!
every lame team that bails on games now, and gets some ripping for it,
has the power to ban an organizer...especially if the ground is wet.
nice precident upa!
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52681 is a reply to message #52641] Fri, 19 February 2010 03:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
That being said, it sounds to me like GMU made a commitment
> (likely a contractual one, MG can you confirm?) to play all games.
> And considering 7/8ths of the attendees went on without as much as a
> peep, it sounds like the UPA should really be sanctioning GMU for
> breaking the confines of an agreed upon UPA sanctioned event.
>
> If there was shouting/pushing/trash talking, I'm going to go ahead and
> support MG/observers/organizers on this one - sort of sounds like they
> deserved it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---i ask each team for a letter of commitment to playing.
and as someone mentioned, 'playing all their games' is part of
committing to attend.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52682 is a reply to message #52645] Fri, 19 February 2010 03:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
On Feb 18, 6:56 pm, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is George Masons next tournament:http://scores.upa.org/scores/#college-open/tourna ment/6881
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---well...they seem to have a deal in place.....so they'll get that
upa sanctioning that their webpage indicates they are seeking.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52683 is a reply to message #52647] Fri, 19 February 2010 04:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
thanks for the great note Eric G.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> WOW.  Inconceivable, if true - I certainly would like to see the
> official UPA statement on why they took this action.  In general, I
> cut the UPA some slack but it is awfully hard for me to envision a
> scenario where they justify this w/o winding up with a whole omelet
> full of egg on their face.
>
> Mike probably won't remember me, but we observed a game together at
> 2004 UPA Collegiate Championship in Seattle (UCSD vs Cal?) and he was
> the perfect co-observer:  knowlegeable, direct, always checking in w/
> me at breaks in the action to chat about previous plays and/or calls,
> supportive of both teams as well as fellow observers.  Additionally, I
> have a distinct memory of him, at 2002 College Championships in
> Spokane, walking the fields with a garbage bag picking up trash - he
> wasn't a volunteer, wasn't an observer, he was UNCW coach and did this
> because he wanted to help after spending the day coaching his team.
> As a (mostly) Mike G observer from afar, Mike's love for this sport of
> Ultimate is clear and strong - not only in the glory and joy of
> playing, but in the actual nuts and bolts, the day-to-day crap that
> needs to be done to keep things running smoothly.
>
> I don't always agree with Mike and the way he comes across on RSD - to
> paraphrase him, he sometimes says some goofy and queer things.  As
> someone who also cares deeply about the sport - and, admittedly, who
> can also be abrasive on and off the field - I'll put up with Mike's
> goofiness; he's working to move the game forward and the good far
> outweighs the bad, in my opinion.  He's a tireless advocate of self-
> refereed Ultimate and the Observer system - in the ever-increasingly
> contentious debate over self-refereed/Observers/Refs, I'm shocked that
> the UPA would seek to alienate a strong ally like Mike.  If, as it
> appears from afar, this winds up being a petty power struggle over who
> steers the direction of Observers in Ultimate then I, for one, am
> extremely disappointed in whomever made the decision to ban Mike.
> It's petty, it's mean, and it does absolutely no one a shred of good.
>
> Eric Goetz
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52684 is a reply to message #52653] Fri, 19 February 2010 04:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> In this case, I'd be interested to see some photos or to know what the
> New Hanover County Parks and Rec outlined as the rules and regulations
> for this tournament.  As I recall, last year's Easterns (were these
> the same fields?) was pretty saturated as well and the fields were
> unbelievalby torn up after Sunday play.  I'd be interested to hear
> MG's response to this new topic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---the GMU guys were complaining about the conditions.
they complained about someone getting hypothermia....we didn't pack
people's bags before they left.
they complained about our reckless decision to let people play on the
fields saying something about 'broken ankles'....there were no broken
ankles.
they specifically threatened us that they were going to contact the
upa and file a formal complaint because, as he said, 'you're scared of
the upa, aren't you, mike'
they got the ball rolling with this all....

the fields were unlocked...not closed.
the county did not contact us to say the fields were closed.
the county, i believe, knew that we had folks coming from far away and
that we hoped to play.
we called them and got no answer prior to starting the day.

not the Easterns fields...those are on UNCW's campus....and same as
there...the grass grows back.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52685 is a reply to message #52661] Fri, 19 February 2010 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
Why would Mr. Gerics and Mr.
> Weddle choose not to re-apply for sanctioning, especially
> after they said that they would like the event to be
> sanctioned since it is such a big draw for teams to attend
> the events. But the UPA blurb did mention that there were
> "extra conditions be met in order to ensure adherence to UPA
> event guidelines and codes of conduct." I'm curious to find
> out what those extra conditions were. Were they so
> extravagant
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---extravagant....yes.
i'm the director of competition and the idea man behind the observer
methods and the lead observer and trainer of observers.
one condition was that i wouldn't be allowed on site.
not on site...for my tournament...where i'm the observer...

another condition was to have 2 different/new organizers.
jason and i are the organizers.....actually...another team offered to
be one of the contacts...

the upa gave us until...whatever...some time yesterday....while i was
at work....
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52686 is a reply to message #52662] Fri, 19 February 2010 04:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
 Mike's
> been going on and on about "cleat up" and George Mason, but
> never mentioned there was an opportunity to save this
> weekend's sanctioning.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---just so you know....
i wrote a bit about GMU to start....and then went back to work.
during the afternoon, jason got the word about conditions for re-
sanctioning.

the upa isn't going to mention GMU's role/partnership with them......
they barely leaked their name to Jason on the phone after he tried
several times to ask them about GMU
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52687 is a reply to message #52672] Fri, 19 February 2010 04:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
but it seems to me like they
> really didn't want to sanction Mike G's events (initial
> refusal to sanction) and were probably waiting for anything
> to go wrong so they could make an example of him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


----correct.
tried to swipe our sanctioning due to having observers.......who
weren't YET upa certified!!!!
crazy.

waited for a wet field and some complainers....BOOM...unsanctioned.
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52698 is a reply to message #52680] Fri, 19 February 2010 04:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> ---agreed!
> every lame team that bails on games now, and gets some RIBBING for it,
> has the power to ban an organizer...especially if the ground is wet.
> nice precident upa!
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52743 is a reply to message #52685] Fri, 19 February 2010 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ulticritic
Messages: 8204
Registered: April 2009
Senior Member
On Feb 19, 7:11 am, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ---extravagant....yes.
> i'm the director of competition and the idea man behind the observer
> methods and the lead observer and trainer of observers.
> one condition was that i wouldn't be allowed on site.
> not on site...for my tournament...where i'm the observer...

so would this mean that you and jason are also being banned from
observing any upa sanctioned events for a year?
Re: ANOTHER Year Suspension..... [message #52762 is a reply to message #52743] Fri, 19 February 2010 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> so would this mean that you and jason are also being banned from
> observing any upa sanctioned events for a year?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


--my personal #1 goal of the season...is to advance to College
Nationals.
do i think that's going to happen?
i doubt it.
i am still going to express interest in observing Sectionals,
Regionals and Nationals.
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