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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #51914 is a reply to message #51902] |
Mon, 08 February 2010 11:54   |
ulticritic
Messages: 4282
Registered: April 2009 |
Senior Member |
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On Feb 8, 1:52 pm, Taylor <taylor.lewis.ni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What are the fundamental differences between the UOA observers and the
> UPA observers?
more of a modernized/upgraded version.........fundamentally speaking
-------------------------------------------------------
Hand Signals?
yes
---------------------------------
Different rules?
uhmmmm, maybe a different "enforcement process" as i believe they both
use the same ruleset. Uoa uses an active "referee style" travel call.
and they use an irs or oqr to keep the game moving A LOT more
quickly. These are two advancements that most upa higher ups(and
spirit zealots......which, unfortunatly, are one in the same) have
serious philisophical problems with. They seem to like that ult-
debate allowance where players are free to discuss every freakin
call.......i think in hopes that one player will "take back" a call,
thus proving that sotg is alive and well. and, as for the ref style
active travel call......nuf said. In reality the uoa observer system
is probably 75 to 80% of the way to being full blown refs.......where
as the upas' version isnt even quite at 50%. this is one spectators
view anyways.
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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #51921 is a reply to message #51909] |
Mon, 08 February 2010 12:02 |
magicelf
Messages: 77
Registered: March 2009 |
Member |
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On Feb 8, 2:40 pm, Slade <bslad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> They are not mutually exclusive. UPA officials have been
> certified for UPA postseason events
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
As I became a UPA certified observer last weekend, there are a few
things I can note of the differences. The major one is that the UOA
runs their events in a way that allows an observer to make many more
active calls. The UPA basically allows time limits, offsides, and line
calls to be active (with the force out foul exception, which is
essentially housed under a line call). Everything else requires the
players to go to the observer for a ruling. The UOA has also added
more hand signals to observation.
More than anything, I'm really happy that the UOA has created an
enthusiastic push for observers and observer training. I'm currently
slated to work Tally classic with them and am super excited about it.
After running an observed game over the weekend, I can finally say
that they work MUCH more efficiently--especially as it relates to time
limits. I can't wait to see for myself the added twists Gerics and co.
have added to the mix.
Drew out.
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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #51922 is a reply to message #51921] |
Mon, 08 February 2010 12:04 |
magicelf
Messages: 77
Registered: March 2009 |
Member |
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On Feb 8, 3:02 pm, CapnGeetch <magic...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 8, 2:40 pm, Slade <bslad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > They are not mutually exclusive. UPA officials have been
> > certified for UPA postseason events
> > --
> > Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
>
> As I became a UPA certified observer last weekend, there are a few
> things I can note of the differences. The major one is that the UOA
> runs their events in a way that allows an observer to make many more
> active calls. The UPA basically allows time limits, offsides, and line
> calls to be active (with the force out foul exception, which is
> essentially housed under a line call). Everything else requires the
> players to go to the observer for a ruling. The UOA has also added
> more hand signals to observation.
>
> More than anything, I'm really happy that the UOA has created an
> enthusiastic push for observers and observer training. I'm currently
> slated to work Tally classic with them and am super excited about it.
> After running an observed game over the weekend, I can finally say
> that they work MUCH more efficiently--especially as it relates to time
> limits. I can't wait to see for myself the added twists Gerics and co.
> have added to the mix.
>
> Drew out.
Another major difference is, as Slade said, that you can't observe in
the college or club series unless you are UPA certified.
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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #51948 is a reply to message #51902] |
Mon, 08 February 2010 14:12 |
agerics20
Messages: 4484
Registered: October 2008 |
Senior Member |
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> What are the fundamental differences between the UOA observers and the
> UPA observers? Hand Signals? Different rules?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
---UOA Observers are ready and willing to work perfectly under any set
of rules or expectations.
at OUR UOA events......there are probably a lot of differences between
UOA and UPA observers.
we developed a bunch of handsignals and decided on proper mechanics
for them.
the UPA had some handsignals....but allow/allowed their observers to
look real sloppy with their mechanics.
the UOA demands/trains/critiques our observers so that everyone's
mechanics look the same.....the way they are supposed to look...crisp,
sharp, professional.
The UPA has adopted most of our hand signals......and hopefully they
will train and then critique their observers so that they don't screw
up the signals that the UOA gave them to use.
UOA observers are trained to provide "quick rulings" on disputed fouls
and violations.
we don't ask..."are you coming to me? are you coming to me? are you
asking me if there's a foul? what foul exactly are you calling? are
you coming to me?"
rather...when we hear contest, and don't see the athletes agreeing, or
we see one or both athletes in a dispute turn and look at us
questioningly.......we RULE on the dispute.
we don't have some crazy set of rules or anything.
on the contrary....we have the exact same rules as anyone else.
we have a uniform and we stick with it.
those not in uniform are asked to turn in their game assignments and
to not accept the check.
those that look all scruffy and messy.....are sent to the bathroom
with a 5 for 98cent pink razor to shave.
the UOA uniform is black and orange.
the UPA adopted our uniform....hopefully they will train and critique
their observers so that they don't screw up the uniform that the UOA
game them to use.
UOA observers are given more duties.
at our events, we count the stall....not the athletes.
we call the travels...not the athletes.
we restart the disc after all stoppages...not the athletes.
i'd say....the biggest difference is.......that we look
good....professional....we coach each other and critique each other
every point....so that we are improving and working on our game
constantly....not settling for being sloppy or half assed.
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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #51953 is a reply to message #51922] |
Mon, 08 February 2010 14:25 |
agerics20
Messages: 4484
Registered: October 2008 |
Senior Member |
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> Another major difference is, as Slade said, that you can't observe in
> the college or club series unless you are UPA certified.-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
---i ref high school basketball, as i've mentioned.
to ref....i have to pay dues to the North Carolina HS Athletic
Association. The NCHSAA sends me the rule books and sets up the
online rules test that i have to pass in order to remain certified and
continue calling their games.
i also have to pay my booking agent. he does a ton of
work...collecting team schedules and then scheduling tons and tons of
refs for all the JV boys and girls games and all the Varsity boys and
girls games in this part of the state.....
i sort of picture the UPA as the NCHSAA......folks have to pay them to
get the rules and to take their test in order to remain certified and
continue to work their games.
i can picture the UOA as a booking agent........but...rather than
collecting schedules and assigning refs to the games, we host our own
events and assign our observers to our games.
BUT.....the UOA has also been invited to be in charge of gathering and
booking observers for other tournaments....the ACCs were
cancelled....Drew mentioned the UOA heading to the Tally
Classic...College Terminus invited us but we declined with so much
other stuff on our plates.....Dave Baldwin invited us, but it was
cancelled due to something......
many of the UOA observers are going to be signed up for the College
Easterns Observer Clinic here in Wilmington.....so we're going to be
eligible to be booked at UPA series events too!
we're hoping to DOMINATE those events as best we can.
oh.....we are planning big stuff for the future......so get ready!
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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #52032 is a reply to message #51948] |
Tue, 09 February 2010 06:47 |
ulticritic
Messages: 4282
Registered: April 2009 |
Senior Member |
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On Feb 8, 5:12 pm, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@yahoo.com> wrote:.
> those that look all scruffy and messy.....are sent to the bathroom
> with a 5 for 98cent pink razor to shave.
ouch
-------------------------------------
>
> UOA observers are given more duties.
> at our events, we count the stall....not the athletes.
> we call the travels...not the athletes.
> we restart the disc after all stoppages...not the athletes.
HOW COULD I HAVE FOR GOTTEN TO MENTION THESE THINGS........the very
exact same things that make em "more ref than observer"
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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #52054 is a reply to message #52032] |
Tue, 09 February 2010 12:11 |
agerics20
Messages: 4484
Registered: October 2008 |
Senior Member |
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> > those that look all scruffy and messy.....are sent to the bathroom
> > with a 5 for 98cent pink razor to shave.
>
> ouch
---Josh Norris had to use TWO of the 5 for 98cent pink razors.
Kyle Kegl is soooo bad assed, that he didn't even get up off his chair
at Observer HeadQuarters in the center of the complex to scrape off
his chin whiskers.....
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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #52055 is a reply to message #52032] |
Tue, 09 February 2010 12:15 |
agerics20
Messages: 4484
Registered: October 2008 |
Senior Member |
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> > UOA observers are given more duties.
> > at our events, we count the stall....not the athletes.
> > we call the travels...not the athletes.
> > we restart the disc after all stoppages...not the athletes.
>
> HOW COULD I HAVE FOR GOTTEN TO MENTION THESE THINGS........the very
> exact same things that make em "more ref than observer"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--no no no.
those things above are observer duties that make the games better for
the athletes
just observers
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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #52057 is a reply to message #52055] |
Tue, 09 February 2010 12:46 |
ulticritic
Messages: 4282
Registered: April 2009 |
Senior Member |
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On Feb 9, 3:15 pm, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@yahoo.com> wrote:.
> > > UOA observers are given more duties.
> > > at our events, we count the stall....not the athletes.
> > > we call the travels...not the athletes.
> > > we restart the disc after all stoppages...not the athletes.
>
> > HOW COULD I HAVE FOR GOTTEN TO MENTION THESE THINGS........the very
> > exact same things that make em "more ref than observer"
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> --no no no.
> those things above are observer duties that make the games better for
> the athletes
> just observers
i simply use the term "ref" as the universaly acepted term that
desribes the person out there thats controling the game and
"orcistrating" the enforcement of the rules........as opposed to the
accepted "ultimate term" that describes the person that simply offers
referals in a "traditional" ultimate game.
if the average "normal person" was to stumble onto an uoa ultimate
game he would just assume that the guys in orange shirts with black
hats were refs. no ifs, ands or buts. whereas if the average "normal
person" was to stumble onto an "old, upa style" observed ultimate game
they would probably say "what the fuck.......why is the ref just
standing there and doing nothing while those two players are acting
out what happened and are obviously in a disagreement"
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| Re: Difference between UOA and UPA observers? [message #52086 is a reply to message #52057] |
Tue, 09 February 2010 13:53 |
ulticritic
Messages: 4282
Registered: April 2009 |
Senior Member |
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On Feb 9, 3:46 pm, ulticritic <ulticri...@live.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 3:15 pm, Reggie Fanelli <ageric...@yahoo.com> wrote:.
>
> > > > UOA observers are given more duties.
> > > > at our events, we count the stall....not the athletes.
> > > > we call the travels...not the athletes.
> > > > we restart the disc after all stoppages...not the athletes.
>
> > > HOW COULD I HAVE FOR GOTTEN TO MENTION THESE THINGS........the very
> > > exact same things that make em "more ref than observer"
>
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> > --no no no.
> > those things above are observer duties that make the games better for
> > the athletes
> > just observers
>
> i simply use the term "ref" as the universaly acepted term that
> desribes the person out there thats controling the game and
> "orcistrating" the enforcement of the rules........as opposed to the
> accepted "ultimate term" that describes the person that simply offers
> referals in a "traditional" ultimate game.
>
> if the average "normal person" was to stumble onto an uoa ultimate
> game he would just assume that the guys in orange shirts with black
> hats were refs. no ifs, ands or buts. whereas if the average "normal
> person" was to stumble onto an "old, upa style" observed ultimate game
> they would probably say "what the fuck.......why is the ref just
> standing there and doing nothing while those two players are acting
> out what happened and are obviously in a disagreement"
banana diet??????
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