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Vote for Frank/Toad [message #489] Thu, 25 September 2008 12:46 Go to next message
aflictultimate
Messages: 1
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
I know they have completely different ideas to approach ultimate, but
the thing they share in common that the masses can recognize is simply
that they are different then every regular player.

Obviously everyone has their issues with Frank/Toad and all his nutty
ideas. But hey, watching the path of ultimate and seeing that the
Board generally agrees together like a family on everything, I think
there needs to be someone put in there for change.

Frank/Toad is not going to be able to change the entire face of
Ultimate by himself, it is still a majority rule organization, so your
not going to start seeing self passes in Sarasota or whistles wailing,
but the Board needs that kind of voice bellowing on one end of the
table.

You can't turn a deaf ear to that, and what will come from it is those
that love the sport now, can pull modified ideas from Frank/Toad that
can further the game without changing the complete makeup of it. We
just need something NEW as players. They seem to have a lot of that,
so let them put their voice to the board, and even if one of them gets
voted down on every proposal he brings up, I am pretty sure he can
bring a new perspective on every issue.

If you find yourself podering on something simple like, "hey your
right, why isn't double team allowed in ultimate?" "Everyone yells
stop because of something else, but your guy goes and catches
something uncovered for a goal anyways" "Arguing is important to the
game..."

Choose one (only one) of these guys in your ballot choice and
hopefully the secretive God-like rulers of all of us can open their
minds a crack and take some chances.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #499 is a reply to message #489] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
McB
Messages: 65
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 25, 3:46 pm, aflictultim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I know they have completely different ideas to approach ultimate, but
> the thing they share in common that the masses can recognize is simply
> that they are different then every regular player.
>
> Obviously everyone has their issues with Frank/Toad and all his nutty
> ideas.  But hey, watching the path of ultimate and seeing that the
> Board generally agrees together like a family on everything, I think
> there needs to be someone put in there for change.
>
> Frank/Toad is not going to be able to change the entire face of
> Ultimate by himself, it is still a majority rule organization, so your
> not going to start seeing self passes in Sarasota or whistles wailing,
> but the Board needs that kind of voice bellowing on one end of the
> table.
>
> You can't turn a deaf ear to that, and what will come from it is those
> that love the sport now, can pull modified ideas from Frank/Toad that
> can further the game without changing the complete makeup of it.  We
> just need something NEW as players.  They seem to have a lot of that,
> so let them put their voice to the board, and even if one of them gets
> voted down on every proposal he brings up, I am pretty sure he can
> bring a new perspective on every issue.
>
> If you find yourself podering on something simple like, "hey your
> right, why isn't double team allowed in ultimate?" "Everyone yells
> stop because of something else, but your guy goes and catches
> something uncovered for a goal anyways" "Arguing is important to the
> game..."
>
> Choose one (only one) of these guys in your ballot choice and
> hopefully the secretive God-like rulers of all of us can open their
> minds a crack and take some chances.

Agreed. They're not going to get what they want, but they'll sure as
hell make some noise and push the board in the direction of evolution.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #501 is a reply to message #499] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Buck
Messages: 54
Registered: September 2008
Member
sweet zombie jesus.

I know RSD is fond of hyperbolic metaphors, so here's mine.

If this is the way you think then you should vote Larouche in the
presidential race.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #505 is a reply to message #489] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eddiegelfen
Messages: 43
Registered: September 2008
Member
Have either of these guys submitted any proposals to the board? I'm
interested in change, but I'm not interested electing someone who just
talks (with questionable coherence). Are these guys who do things to
get the UPA to make changes or are they just RSD whiners? I don't
want to vote someone in just to wreak havoc on the Board meetings.
Wasting all the time at Board meetings with endless rants will bring
about LESS CHANGE, not more.

Seems the natural way to try to get the UPA involved in something
would be to draft and submit a proposal to the board. If they haven't
even done THAT in the decades they've been complaining for, I question
their value as instigators of change. Instead of voting them in on
blind faith, I'd rather have them demonstrate their effectiveness over
the next year and I'll consider voting for them in the next election.
If they have submitted proposals, then I think the voters would love
to see what those proposals had to say.

Eddie

aflictultim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I know they have completely different ideas to approach ultimate, but
> the thing they share in common that the masses can recognize is simply
> that they are different then every regular player.
>
> Obviously everyone has their issues with Frank/Toad and all his nutty
> ideas. But hey, watching the path of ultimate and seeing that the
> Board generally agrees together like a family on everything, I think
> there needs to be someone put in there for change.
>
> Frank/Toad is not going to be able to change the entire face of
> Ultimate by himself, it is still a majority rule organization, so your
> not going to start seeing self passes in Sarasota or whistles wailing,
> but the Board needs that kind of voice bellowing on one end of the
> table.
>
> You can't turn a deaf ear to that, and what will come from it is those
> that love the sport now, can pull modified ideas from Frank/Toad that
> can further the game without changing the complete makeup of it. We
> just need something NEW as players. They seem to have a lot of that,
> so let them put their voice to the board, and even if one of them gets
> voted down on every proposal he brings up, I am pretty sure he can
> bring a new perspective on every issue.
>
> If you find yourself podering on something simple like, "hey your
> right, why isn't double team allowed in ultimate?" "Everyone yells
> stop because of something else, but your guy goes and catches
> something uncovered for a goal anyways" "Arguing is important to the
> game..."
>
> Choose one (only one) of these guys in your ballot choice and
> hopefully the secretive God-like rulers of all of us can open their
> minds a crack and take some chances.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #506 is a reply to message #501] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jeffyg9495
Messages: 20
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
Based on this thread, I'd say this campaign is gaining some
TOADMENTUM!

(sorry that was kinda weak...)
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #516 is a reply to message #501] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
swillaholic
Messages: 78
Registered: September 2008
Member
> I know RSD is fond of hyperbolic metaphors, so here's mine.
>
> If this is the way you think then you should vote Larouche in the
> presidential race.

A dissenting opinion, assures the presence of democracy.

(your turn =)
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #517 is a reply to message #505] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joadntoad
Messages: 1411
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 4:18 pm, eddiegel...@gmail.com wrote:
> Have either of these guys submitted any proposals to the board?  I'm
> interested in change, but I'm not interested electing someone who just
> talks (with questionable coherence).  Are these guys who do things to
> get the UPA to make changes or are they just RSD whiners?  I don't
> want to vote someone in just to wreak havoc on the Board meetings.
> Wasting all the time at Board meetings with endless rants will bring
> about LESS CHANGE, not more.
>
> Seems the natural way to try to get the UPA involved in something
> would be to draft and submit a proposal to the board.  If they haven't
> even done THAT in the decades they've been complaining for, I question
> their value as instigators of change.  Instead of voting them in on
> blind faith, I'd rather have them demonstrate their effectiveness over
> the next year and I'll consider voting for them in the next election.
> If they have submitted proposals, then I think the voters would love
> to see what those proposals had to say.
>
> Eddie
>
>
>
> aflictultim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I know they have completely different ideas to approach ultimate, but
> > the thing they share in common that the masses can recognize is simply
> > that they are different then every regular player.
>
> > Obviously everyone has their issues with Frank/Toad and all his nutty
> > ideas.  But hey, watching the path of ultimate and seeing that the
> > Board generally agrees together like a family on everything, I think
> > there needs to be someone put in there for change.
>
> > Frank/Toad is not going to be able to change the entire face of
> > Ultimate by himself, it is still a majority rule organization, so your
> > not going to start seeing self passes in Sarasota or whistles wailing,
> > but the Board needs that kind of voice bellowing on one end of the
> > table.
>
> > You can't turn a deaf ear to that, and what will come from it is those
> > that love the sport now, can pull modified ideas from Frank/Toad that
> > can further the game without changing the complete makeup of it.  We
> > just need something NEW as players.  They seem to have a lot of that,
> > so let them put their voice to the board, and even if one of them gets
> > voted down on every proposal he brings up, I am pretty sure he can
> > bring a new perspective on every issue.
>
> > If you find yourself podering on something simple like, "hey your
> > right, why isn't double team allowed in ultimate?" "Everyone yells
> > stop because of something else, but your guy goes and catches
> > something uncovered for a goal anyways" "Arguing is important to the
> > game..."
>
> > Choose one (only one) of these guys in your ballot choice and
> > hopefully the secretive God-like rulers of all of us can open their
> > minds a crack and take some chances.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i've made many suggestions to board members over the years and some of
the rules currently used in the series were born from nua comp. And
if sibmitting board proposals is so important why not ask the same of
the other canidates as well. seems like you are only holding frank
and myself accountable for making such efforts why giving the other
canidates a pass.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #521 is a reply to message #516] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MrPinto
Messages: 601
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 1:56 pm, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > I know RSD is fond of hyperbolic metaphors, so here's mine.
>
> > If this is the way you think then you should vote Larouche in the
> > presidential race.
>
> A dissenting opinion, assures the presence of democracy.
>
> (your turn =)

Okay, ever heard this one?
1. Something must be done.
2. This is something.
3. Ergo, this must be done.
Q.E. to the D.

Read: even if dissent is necessary, it might not be sufficient. You
might want an opinion that is at once "dissenting" and "lucid." Are
either Toad or Frank offering that?

~p
Is voting for Pedro.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #522 is a reply to message #505] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 3:18 pm, eddiegel...@gmail.com wrote:
> Have either of these guys submitted any proposals to the board?  
>
> Seems the natural way to try to get the UPA involved in something
> would be to draft and submit a proposal to the board.  
>

Valid points, Eddie. It seems that proposals written and submitted
from outside HQ are few and far between. It would be nice to see more
members taking it upon themselves to submit ideas to the BOD...

The UPA has a format for submitting proposals. I may take a look at
that myself...

Frank and Toad have at least been outspoken about their ideas, so
anyone who votes for them knows what they are getting into. We know
they will bring some controversial discussion. In comparison, we know
very little about the other candidates, other than the recent
contributions made by Joseph Seastrom, Henry Thorne, and Gwen Ambler.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #525 is a reply to message #522] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Something else for voters to consider:

If Toad or Frank are elected to the BOD, they would have to spend a
lot of time actually defending their positions to the rest of the
Board, and therefore would be spending less time on RSD...
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #526 is a reply to message #489] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frankie
Messages: 93
Registered: September 2008
Member
Two things:

1) Self-passes are not on the table for discussion

2) Frank is going to be able to change the entire face of Ultimate by myself
(along with the help of you the voter and an endorsement from The-Huddle).

stay tuned....

<aflictultimate@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a3aaef65-09b3-46db-b7e1-d82c560a30d3@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>I know they have completely different ideas to approach ultimate, but
> the thing they share in common that the masses can recognize is simply
> that they are different then every regular player.
>
> Obviously everyone has their issues with Frank/Toad and all his nutty
> ideas. But hey, watching the path of ultimate and seeing that the
> Board generally agrees together like a family on everything, I think
> there needs to be someone put in there for change.
>
> Frank/Toad is not going to be able to change the entire face of
> Ultimate by himself, it is still a majority rule organization, so your
> not going to start seeing self passes in Sarasota or whistles wailing,
> but the Board needs that kind of voice bellowing on one end of the
> table.
>
> You can't turn a deaf ear to that, and what will come from it is those
> that love the sport now, can pull modified ideas from Frank/Toad that
> can further the game without changing the complete makeup of it. We
> just need something NEW as players. They seem to have a lot of that,
> so let them put their voice to the board, and even if one of them gets
> voted down on every proposal he brings up, I am pretty sure he can
> bring a new perspective on every issue.
>
> If you find yourself podering on something simple like, "hey your
> right, why isn't double team allowed in ultimate?" "Everyone yells
> stop because of something else, but your guy goes and catches
> something uncovered for a goal anyways" "Arguing is important to the
> game..."
>
> Choose one (only one) of these guys in your ballot choice and
> hopefully the secretive God-like rulers of all of us can open their
> minds a crack and take some chances.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #528 is a reply to message #517] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Buck
Messages: 54
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 25, 1:57 pm, joadnt...@ec.rr.com wrote:
> i've made many suggestions to board members over the years and some of
> the rules currently used in the series were born from nua comp.  And
> if sibmitting board proposals is so important why not ask the same of
> the other canidates as well.  seems like you are only holding frank
> and myself accountable for making such efforts why giving the other
> canidates a pass.-

You've got them on the run!
The other potential board members have declined to post constantly on
rsd because they say they "need to 'suspend' their campaign to get
back to Boulder to take care of this mess."
But not you Toad, you can do two things at once, and are fully
prepared to be in Mississippi on Friday.
You should go down there to City Hall and tell those Fat Cats that
you're mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore.

4 More Years!
No New Taxes.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #529 is a reply to message #505] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frankie
Messages: 93
Registered: September 2008
Member
In 2004, I submitted a set of rules to the UPA for consideration.

I spent a lot of time and effort crafting the rules in a way I thought would
really advance the sport and move it forward. I think I put a couple of
weeks (on and off) into it.

Those arrogant m#4#$%er f#$%#$%kers never even bothered to send me an
acknowledgement.

Imagine that.




<eddiegelfen@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f94e8f99-e276-4990-a852-4ff04fdb5f27@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> Have either of these guys submitted any proposals to the board? I'm
> interested in change, but I'm not interested electing someone who just
> talks (with questionable coherence). Are these guys who do things to
> get the UPA to make changes or are they just RSD whiners? I don't
> want to vote someone in just to wreak havoc on the Board meetings.
> Wasting all the time at Board meetings with endless rants will bring
> about LESS CHANGE, not more.
>
> Seems the natural way to try to get the UPA involved in something
> would be to draft and submit a proposal to the board. If they haven't
> even done THAT in the decades they've been complaining for, I question
> their value as instigators of change. Instead of voting them in on
> blind faith, I'd rather have them demonstrate their effectiveness over
> the next year and I'll consider voting for them in the next election.
> If they have submitted proposals, then I think the voters would love
> to see what those proposals had to say.
>
> Eddie
>
> aflictultim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I know they have completely different ideas to approach ultimate, but
>> the thing they share in common that the masses can recognize is simply
>> that they are different then every regular player.
>>
>> Obviously everyone has their issues with Frank/Toad and all his nutty
>> ideas. But hey, watching the path of ultimate and seeing that the
>> Board generally agrees together like a family on everything, I think
>> there needs to be someone put in there for change.
>>
>> Frank/Toad is not going to be able to change the entire face of
>> Ultimate by himself, it is still a majority rule organization, so your
>> not going to start seeing self passes in Sarasota or whistles wailing,
>> but the Board needs that kind of voice bellowing on one end of the
>> table.
>>
>> You can't turn a deaf ear to that, and what will come from it is those
>> that love the sport now, can pull modified ideas from Frank/Toad that
>> can further the game without changing the complete makeup of it. We
>> just need something NEW as players. They seem to have a lot of that,
>> so let them put their voice to the board, and even if one of them gets
>> voted down on every proposal he brings up, I am pretty sure he can
>> bring a new perspective on every issue.
>>
>> If you find yourself podering on something simple like, "hey your
>> right, why isn't double team allowed in ultimate?" "Everyone yells
>> stop because of something else, but your guy goes and catches
>> something uncovered for a goal anyways" "Arguing is important to the
>> game..."
>>
>> Choose one (only one) of these guys in your ballot choice and
>> hopefully the secretive God-like rulers of all of us can open their
>> minds a crack and take some chances.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #530 is a reply to message #526] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
throw
Messages: 743
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
If toad gets on the UPA board I'll pay him $100 for a pound of his
stool. But he must pay the shipping cost.

Peter Mc
www.thisisultimate.com
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #532 is a reply to message #526] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DikEar
Messages: 37
Registered: September 2008
Member
The opinion expressed starting this thread is obscenely retarded.
Dissension for dissension's sake is the opposite of productive. One
might say, unproductive.

If you support Frank/Toad's views on the future of ultimate, vote for
them. Don't simply because they would argue a lot. That's ridiculous.

And finally, uh oh. Frank is speaking in third-person... This cannot
be a good sign.

-dik
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #535 is a reply to message #521] Thu, 25 September 2008 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
swillaholic
Messages: 78
Registered: September 2008
Member
> Okay, ever heard this one?
> 1. Something must be done.
> 2. This is something.
> 3. Ergo, this must be done.
> Q.E. to the D.

Change is rarely embraced by the incumbent.


> Read: even if dissent is necessary, it might not be sufficient.  You
> might want an opinion that is at once "dissenting" and "lucid."  Are
> either Toad or Frank offering that?


Necessity is more apparent with complete absence. What an elected
officials 'can offer' is not the same as what they 'will offer'. And
I question the lucidity of one that never dissents. (sometimes)




>      ~p
> Is voting for Pedro.

Does Pedro offer protection? I think not.
=)
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #536 is a reply to message #532] Thu, 25 September 2008 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
swillaholic
Messages: 78
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 25, 5:39 pm, DikEar <dikinyer...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The opinion expressed starting this thread is obscenely retarded.
> Dissension for dissension's sake is the opposite of productive. One
> might say, unproductive.

Ah, agreed.

But agreement for agreement's sake is no better...

No, don't vote for them simply because they 'will disagree'.

Vote for them because they are 'willing to disagree'.

And by them, I mean the 'one of them'.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #537 is a reply to message #489] Thu, 25 September 2008 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hotlou
Messages: 73
Registered: September 2008
Member
Similar logic is what Jesse Ventura used to get elected governor of
Minnesota.

Then everyone in elected office having to do with Jesse learned to
hate him and nothing productive got done for years. True irony at its
best.

Toad and Frank can have dischoops. Let's keep ultimate.

Thanks,
Joe's Brother
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #544 is a reply to message #489] Thu, 25 September 2008 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Buck
Messages: 54
Registered: September 2008
Member
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3073 970/Cheerleaders-ditch-skimpy-outfits-after-complaints.html

i'm interested in how this factors into the "dancin' girls and
hotdogs" platform.

could you please address this toad?
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #551 is a reply to message #525] Thu, 25 September 2008 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 2:20 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Something else for voters to consider:
>
> If Toad or Frank are elected to the BOD, they would have to spend a
> lot of time actually defending their positions to the rest of the
> Board, and therefore would be spending less time on RSD...

If you are going to begin promoting a particular candidate, or
candidates, I take back my kudos for the work you are doing helping
members understand who the candidates are. I guess you're just a wolf
in sheep's clothing.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #556 is a reply to message #551] Thu, 25 September 2008 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frankie
Messages: 93
Registered: September 2008
Member
Joe Seidler once again showing his true colors.


"Joe Seidler" <joe@seidler.com> wrote in message
news:4fa30a0c-23fb-4bd4-83fb-d30d5270ce56@v13g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 2:20 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Something else for voters to consider:
>
> If Toad or Frank are elected to the BOD, they would have to spend a
> lot of time actually defending their positions to the rest of the
> Board, and therefore would be spending less time on RSD...

If you are going to begin promoting a particular candidate, or
candidates, I take back my kudos for the work you are doing helping
members understand who the candidates are. I guess you're just a wolf
in sheep's clothing.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #558 is a reply to message #525] Thu, 25 September 2008 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 5:20 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Something else for voters to consider:
>
> If Toad or Frank are elected to the BOD, they would have to spend a
> lot of time actually defending their positions to the rest of the
> Board, and therefore would be spending less time on RSD...

Ha. I think I will start a write-in campaign for
cicitrade01@yahoo.cn.

This thread strikes me as funny, though. The idea of voting someone
onto the board just to chatter and be argumentative. Now, if you
think the guy has good ideas and you think he's going to bring about
some positive changes, that's another thing.

But this breath of fresh air business just sounds like a cheap
marketing ploy for candidates who offer little else. Merely being
outspoken about ideas isn't good enough to earn my vote. I'm not
voting based on personality (and if i were, Frank/Toad wouldn't get my
vote). Then again, if they aren't trying to convince people based on
their achievements up to now, then I suppose using a gimmick to get
votes is the way to go.

And this coming from AfflictUltimate@yahoo.com. Afflict Ultimate with
a bad 3-year case of Frank/Toad?
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #559 is a reply to message #536] Thu, 25 September 2008 19:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 6:15 pm, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sep 25, 5:39 pm, DikEar <dikinyer...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The opinion expressed starting this thread is obscenely retarded.
> > Dissension for dissension's sake is the opposite of productive. One
> > might say, unproductive.
>
> Ah, agreed.
>
> But agreement for agreement's sake is no better...
>
> No, don't vote for them simply because they 'will disagree'.
>
> Vote for them because they are 'willing to disagree'.
>
> And by them, I mean the 'one of them'.

Wait, so have you determined whether the agreement was due to a lack
of controversial proposals or due to some deficiency in the board? Or
due to complete and productive discussion/negotiation prior to
voting? From my reading of the minutes and my interaction with
various board members, I'm not convinced that all the members just sit
around silently and then unanimously vote "yes."
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #566 is a reply to message #559] Thu, 25 September 2008 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
swillaholic
Messages: 78
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 25, 10:22 pm, "colinmcint...@gmail.com"
<colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 25, 6:15 pm, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > On Sep 25, 5:39 pm, DikEar <dikinyer...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > The opinion expressed starting this thread is obscenely retarded.
> > > Dissension for dissension's sake is the opposite of productive. One
> > > might say, unproductive.
>
> > Ah, agreed.
>
> > But agreement for agreement's sake is no better...
>
> > No, don't vote for them simply because they 'will disagree'.
>
> > Vote for them because they are 'willing to disagree'.
>
> > And by them, I mean the 'one of them'.
>
> Wait, so have you determined whether the agreement was due to a lack
> of controversial proposals or due to some deficiency in the board?  Or
> due to complete and productive discussion/negotiation prior to
> voting?  From my reading of the minutes and my interaction with
> various board members, I'm not convinced that all the members just sit
> around silently and then unanimously vote "yes."

You are correct Colin.

During the 2007 meeting, one person voted "no", once.

=)
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #573 is a reply to message #566] Thu, 25 September 2008 22:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 11:21 pm, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sep 25, 10:22 pm, "colinmcint...@gmail.com"

> You are correct Colin.

That has a lovely ring to it.

> During the 2007 meeting, one person voted "no", once.
>
> =)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, it's going to take at least a hefty dose of alarmism to get
either Toad or Frank onto the board, so we've got our work cut out for
ourselves. I heard that the current UPA board intends to make it
official UPA policy not to have dancing girls at the tournaments. To
facilitate this, they are going to ban all music at any tournament
events attended by UPA members! Elect Toad and he won't prevent it
from happening, but he will be the one person who votes "no" in
2009.

Also, someone needs to get the UPA to buy a new set of "approved" and
"denied" stamps. Currently, the UPA only has one set -- the UPA board
has the "approved" stamp and the UPA college eligibility committee has
the "denied" stamp. This problem must be fixed and all of the other
candidates have avoided even discussing it. Todd Leber is our only
hope!

Also, ever been to a UPA event and had a vendor unable to break your
$10,000 bill? Well, that'll never happen again, if you vote right.
Vote Frank Huguenard for $500,000 in change!
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #592 is a reply to message #551] Fri, 26 September 2008 04:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 7:55 pm, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
>
> > If Toad or Frank are elected to the BOD, they would have to spend a
> > lot of time actually defending their positions to the rest of the
> > Board, and therefore would be spending less time on RSD...
>
> If you are going to begin promoting a particular candidate, or
> candidates, I take back my kudos for the work you are doing helping
> members understand who the candidates are. I guess you're just a wolf
> in sheep's clothing.

Seriously? My above statement about time spent on RSD was tongue-in-
cheek and in no way an endorsement of anyone. My intent in the
analyses I've been writing is to start up discussion on the candidates
and the elections as a whole (which has been somewhat successful).
Between the UPA's audio interviews, the Huddle's upcoming research
results, and the chatter here on RSD, I'm not aware that the BOD
elections have ever gotten more talk.

Also, in my earlier threads, I clearly state that my comments are a
reflection of my own biases and opinions, and you can see that I am
more favorable to some candidates than others. Regardless, I try to be
respectful to everyone I write about and talk to. Even the Huddle has
announced that they will be endorsing candidates of their choice at
the end also. That doesn't mean that the Huddle's research won't be
helpful or enlightening.

I want people to keep talking about the candidates and make this whole
process fun and interesting, and most of all, meaningful. I'm not a
wolf. I'm not a sheep. I'm Baer.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #596 is a reply to message #544] Fri, 26 September 2008 05:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joadntoad
Messages: 1411
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 7:38 pm, Joe Buck <birdf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3073 970/Cheer...
>
> i'm interested in how this factors into the "dancin' girls and
> hotdogs" platform.
>
> could you please address this toad?

just know that they arent gettin rid of the dancing girls.......just
adjusting their attire........and also notice "some people liked em".
Just probably not the people in charge. Kinda like how the "people in
charge" of ultimate dont like refs (or striped shirts for that matter).
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #598 is a reply to message #551] Fri, 26 September 2008 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joadntoad
Messages: 1411
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 8:55 pm, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
> On Sep 25, 2:20 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Something else for voters to consider:
>
> > If Toad or Frank are elected to the BOD, they would have to spend a
> > lot of time actually defending their positions to the rest of the
> > Board, and therefore would be spending less time on RSD...
>
> If you are going to begin promoting a particular candidate, or
> candidates, I take back my kudos for the work you are doing helping


its not that baer is supportin a particular canidate, is it now
joe.....its that that particular canidate is me, right???
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------

> members understand who the candidates are. I guess you're just a wolf
> in sheep's clothing.


and correct me if im wrong joe....but werent YOU once a board member.
Do you really think for one second that you have more to offer (or
have contrivbuted more) to this sport than myself. I would run
circles around you in administrating this sport.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #608 is a reply to message #598] Fri, 26 September 2008 07:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seanc
Messages: 322
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 26, 6:05 am, joadnt...@ec.rr.com wrote:
> On Sep 25, 8:55 pm, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 25, 2:20 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Something else for voters to consider:
>
> > > If Toad or Frank are elected to the BOD, they would have to spend a
> > > lot of time actually defending their positions to the rest of the
> > > Board, and therefore would be spending less time on RSD...
>
> > If you are going to begin promoting a particular candidate, or
> > candidates, I take back my kudos for the work you are doing helping
>
> its not that baer is supportin a particular canidate, is it now
> joe.....its that that particular canidate is me, right???
> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
>
> > members understand who the candidates are. I guess you're just a wolf
> > in sheep's clothing.
>
> and correct me if im wrong joe....but werent YOU once a board member.
> Do you really think for one second that you have more to offer (or
> have contrivbuted more) to this sport than myself.  

"I would run
circles around you in administrating this sport."

well, you're right you'd be running in circles.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #612 is a reply to message #573] Fri, 26 September 2008 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
swillaholic
Messages: 78
Registered: September 2008
Member
> > On Sep 25, 10:22 pm, "colinmcint...@gmail.com"
> > You are correct Colin.
>
> That has a lovely ring to it.

Colin, there's a rules question on the 11ed board!
=)



> > During the 2007 meeting, one person voted "no", once.
>
> > =)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Well, it's going to take at least a hefty dose of alarmism to get
> either Toad or Frank onto the board, so we've got our work cut out for
> ourselves.  I heard that the current UPA board intends to make it
> official UPA policy not to have dancing girls at the tournaments.  To
> facilitate this, they are going to ban all music at any tournament
> events attended by UPA members!  Elect Toad and he won't prevent it
> from happening, but he will be the one person who votes "no" in
> 2009.

He may be that person that votes 'no'. He might also be a person that
votes 'yes'. We will (or may) see....

As for dancing girls, they are safe in this sport IMO.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.disc/browse_thread/ thread/227f486f656ef1df/633442dbb5345314?q=dance+contest& ;lnk=ol&


> Also, someone needs to get the UPA to buy a new set of "approved" and
> "denied" stamps.  Currently, the UPA only has one set -- the UPA board
> has the "approved" stamp and the UPA college eligibility committee has
> the "denied" stamp.  This problem must be fixed and all of the other
> candidates have avoided even discussing it.  Todd Leber is our only
> hope!

I'm pretty sure the College Eligibility Committee stamps 'approved'
frequently.


> Also, ever been to a UPA event and had a vendor unable to break your
> $10,000 bill?  Well, that'll never happen again, if you vote right.
> Vote Frank Huguenard for $500,000 in change!

Who carries $10,000 to a UPA event??
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #623 is a reply to message #612] Fri, 26 September 2008 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 26, 10:43 am, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:

> > Also, someone needs to get the UPA to buy a new set of "approved" and
> > "denied" stamps.  Currently, the UPA only has one set -- the UPA board
> > has the "approved" stamp and the UPA college eligibility committee has
> > the "denied" stamp.  This problem must be fixed and all of the other
> > candidates have avoided even discussing it.  Todd Leber is our only
> > hope!
>
> I'm pretty sure the College Eligibility Committee stamps 'approved'
> frequently.

Oh. I meant the College Eligibility Appeals Committee.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #629 is a reply to message #623] Fri, 26 September 2008 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
swillaholic
Messages: 78
Registered: September 2008
Member
> > > Also, someone needs to get the UPA to buy a new set of "approved" and
> > > "denied" stamps.  Currently, the UPA only has one set -- the UPA board
> > > has the "approved" stamp and the UPA college eligibility committee has
> > > the "denied" stamp.  This problem must be fixed and all of the other
> > > candidates have avoided even discussing it.  Todd Leber is our only
> > > hope!
>
> > I'm pretty sure the College Eligibility Committee stamps 'approved'
> > frequently.
>
> Oh.  I meant the College Eligibility Appeals Committee.

Still incorrect.
See: Rutgers.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #642 is a reply to message #629] Fri, 26 September 2008 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 26, 1:29 pm, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > Also, someone needs to get the UPA to buy a new set of "approved" and
> > > > "denied" stamps.  Currently, the UPA only has one set -- the UPA board
> > > > has the "approved" stamp and the UPA college eligibility committee has
> > > > the "denied" stamp.  This problem must be fixed and all of the other
> > > > candidates have avoided even discussing it.  Todd Leber is our only
> > > > hope!
>
> > > I'm pretty sure the College Eligibility Committee stamps 'approved'
> > > frequently.
>
> > Oh.  I meant the College Eligibility Appeals Committee.
>
> Still incorrect.
> See: Rutgers.

No, it's correct. The Rutgers thing related to missing a rostering
deadline, not the eligibility rules. What are you missing here?
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #645 is a reply to message #629] Fri, 26 September 2008 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 26, 1:29 pm, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > Also, someone needs to get the UPA to buy a new set of "approved" and
> > > > "denied" stamps.  Currently, the UPA only has one set -- the UPA board
> > > > has the "approved" stamp and the UPA college eligibility committee has
> > > > the "denied" stamp.  This problem must be fixed and all of the other
> > > > candidates have avoided even discussing it.  Todd Leber is our only
> > > > hope!
>
> > > I'm pretty sure the College Eligibility Committee stamps 'approved'
> > > frequently.
>
> > Oh.  I meant the College Eligibility Appeals Committee.
>
> Still incorrect.
> See: Rutgers.

The "Rutgers Registration Exception" was a recent development and it
was a case of a team/school administrative error, not individual
eligibility. And the UPA had to go through this big process in
granting the exception, simply because the College Eligibility Appeals
Committee didn't have an "approved" stamp.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #650 is a reply to message #645] Fri, 26 September 2008 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
swillaholic
Messages: 78
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 26, 3:49 pm, "colinmcint...@gmail.com"
<colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 1:29 pm, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > > Also, someone needs to get the UPA to buy a new set of "approved" and
> > > > > "denied" stamps.  Currently, the UPA only has one set -- the UPA board
> > > > > has the "approved" stamp and the UPA college eligibility committee has
> > > > > the "denied" stamp.  This problem must be fixed and all of the other
> > > > > candidates have avoided even discussing it.  Todd Leber is our only
> > > > > hope!
>
> > > > I'm pretty sure the College Eligibility Committee stamps 'approved'
> > > > frequently.
>
> > > Oh.  I meant the College Eligibility Appeals Committee.
>
> > Still incorrect.
> > See: Rutgers.
>
> The "Rutgers Registration Exception" was a recent development and it
> was a case of a team/school administrative error, not individual
> eligibility.  And the UPA had to go through this big process in
> granting the exception, simply because the College Eligibility Appeals
> Committee didn't have an "approved" stamp.

I don't think it was an 'error'. Rather it was "documented
misinformation provided to the teams by their school administration."

Personally, I would prefer that 'exceptions' 'go through a big
process'. But I can also see the reasons for streamlining this
process.

I would imagine Todd, much like any other candidate, would be quite
open towards discussing and addressing this specific concern of yours.

=)
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #689 is a reply to message #650] Sat, 27 September 2008 08:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Henry Thorne
Messages: 16
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
On Sep 25, 3:46 pm, aflictultim...@yahoo.com wrote:

> ... Obviously everyone has their issues with Frank/Toad and all his nutty
> ideas. But hey, watching the path of ultimate and seeing that the
> Board generally agrees together like a family on everything, I think
> there needs to be someone put in there for change....

> ...what will come from it is those
> that love the sport now, can pull modified ideas from Frank/Toad that
> can further the game without changing the complete makeup of it. We
> just need something NEW as players. They seem to have a lot of that...

I agree there's some appeal to this.

But then there's the reality of how the UPA and board actually work
together. It's a relationship that shouldn't work. There's the staff
who work on Ultimate all day every day and know it cold, then there's
the board who jet in once (now twice) a year and make all the big
decisions. Dave Lionetti, another current board member, likened it to
having your parents fly in for XMAS, set all the rules in your house
and leave. We Ultimate players are natural anarchists, I flipped the
bird at GM and started a business selling stuff back to them, and the
thought of having authority tell me anything just about kills me.
Most of the staff are Ultimate players and made of precisely the same
stuff yet somehow we have to make that relationship work, and we have
to do so so that your votes are the ultimate authority through your
choice of who represents you, we have to wield that authority to give
you voice.

So how do we do that? How do we make that non-functional system
work? Very carefully. We've failed a lot of times. But here are
some keys:

- You have to have a board of people who other people want to work for
or with. We finally got that when we hired Joey Grey. She was the
first really talented person we got to work full time on Ultimate and
she told me when I hired her that the board really impressed her and
drew her in. Unfortunately we weren't able to make the board
relationship work with her so went out and did a broader search for
someone with a successful track record at leading sports orgs and
found Sandie. Once again we had a very good committee doing that
search (I led it but Joe Seidler was the brains) and we did a really
good job of recruiting her IMO.
- You have to recruit great people into the rest of the organization
and although that lands mostly on the director, it's also a board
thing in that the people have to trust the board will send them on
worthy missions. That the board has values they can respect and will
reach great decisions they can believe in.
- You have to create an environment where people know they will be
heard out when they are digging deep down wrestling with a tough
issue. We deal with really tough issues in board meetings and people
have to know they aren't going to get run over if they can't quite
articulate what they are trying to say or if they know they've got
something important but are struggling with exactly what it is. Bad
decisions can happen if everybody can't get their guts out on the
table. Sounds awful, but it's really like that when you're trying to
decide something like "should Canada be in the series".
- You have to figure out ways to synthesize all of those deep thoughts
into some galvanizing action that everyone feels energized to act
upon.

And if you do all that you end up with a great team at the UPA that's
fired up and goes out and runs the sport incredibly well and grows it
like crazy. It's like having a great Ultimate team that goes out and
wins big. And that's what we've got. Over the last 12 years of which
I've been on the board 11, we've grown from a quarter million dollar
budget to a million and a quarter (5x), from 2 people to 8 people
(4x), and those 8 people are out kicking ass. Nationals is better and
better every year, we've created observer training programs, coaching
clinics, innovation grants, grown the sanctioning program from a dozen
tourneys a year to hundreds, gotten the richest newsletter in the
sport out four times a year and on time now, kicked off a huge growth
at the youth level through numerous efforts including seeding the
sport at the high school athletic teacher level which has lead to
600,000 youth players who are about to get to college and want to
play. High school easterns/westerns/states, youth club championships,
observers at every game at college nationals, coaching clinics created
and now adding level II, adding mixed divisions to Nationals, growing
Nationals from 10 teams to 16, we've done so much.

An organizing clicking that well can get a massive strategic plan done
where each board member is putting in some 100 hours to get dozens of
focus groups to happen all across the country, lead them, digest and
synthesize huge amounts of data and coalesce it into a plan that will
lay the foundation for the huge growth ahead. Add in staffers that
not only had to make Ultimate go during that year, but grew it another
15% and "on the side" putting in huge hours doing the same leading,
digging, and coalescing to create a plan that will grow Ultimate the
way you want it grown. That team is now out making all of this happen
and they are incredibly good at it. I'm on two of the committees
pushing it forward and watching Will Deaver work with the key players
to develop the new Grand Masters and Women's Masters Championships is
a lot like watching him cut on the field, he's incredibly good at it.
The other, reaching out to alumni through re-union events has Melanie
Deaver just clicking perfectly and we'll see the first really well run
alumni event in the sport at this years HoF induction/alumni reunion
event in Sarasota at Nationals. All the other major initiatives will
also we incredibly well done, the doubling down on the observer
system, addition of College DIV II, and more complex things like web
site tools for leagues, tools to help leagues get fields, tools and
relationships with colleges to get many more intramural programs into
gear.

And all of that is really really important because we've kicked off
this nuclear explosion of growth at the youth level through seeding
the sport to athletic directors and teachers where we now have 600,000
of the 800,000 players being youth players. We need to push hard now
to create the structures and tools that will allow those players (who
will all want to keep playing because we've got the most kick ass
sport there is, the Ultimate sport in my opinion) to play in college
and then beyond.

I'd categorize all of those things I'm saying the board has to do to
make that non-starter relationship that should create a huge mess of
infighting and power struggles work and end up instead with an
incredible kick-ass team so that all this great stuff can happen as
"constructive." We need to keep building up this organization like we
have been so we can keep the sport on the wild growth path we've put
it on. And while I agree with the author of the post that having
those wild oats sowed into the board would make for some really
exciting and fun discussions, I think those folks we're talking about
often aren't constructive but instead destructive. There are examples
all over rsd but one I know happened within the UPA is that Toad
called Sandie some time after we hired her and F bombed her during the
phone call. What would happen with that type of scenario unfolding on
the board level is that a lot of the energy we now direct towards
making Ultimate better would instead get focused inwards keeping the
wheels on as we tried to move forward. People are people and we
already have plenty of personnel crises that occur and because we're
builders, we mitigate, rebuild and get everything back on track. But
time and energy spent on that is energy that isn't going into building
Ultimate and getting great decisions made that energize the
organization to go out there and continue kicking ass making Ultimate
grow at an unprecedented rate. There isn't anything that says we
should have been growing at this doubling every few years rate, the
sport and organization hadn't ever before. There isn't anything that
says it won't get bogged down with internal messes and just stop
growing and running Ultimate as well as it's been run over the last
five years. It isn't trivial that it's been doing it as well as it
has. I've been working hard to create that team and an environment
where those brilliant people that make Ultimate go every day are fully
charged up about everything we're doing with the sport and the UPA.
And fundamentally I need your help doing that, I need you to pick
builders not bombers. I agree the bombers have a good effect. Toad
is a friend of mine and I think he adds a lot to the sport. But let's
keep the bombs at a safe distance and take only the good from them and
not introduce the destructive force at the core where real damage
could occur to the main organization pushing the sport we love forward
so vigorously.

Henry Thorne, current board member, and board nominee.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #692 is a reply to message #689] Sat, 27 September 2008 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Douglas T Lilley
Messages: 674
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 27, 11:12 am, Henry Thorne <htho...@thorleyindustries.com>
wrote:
> On Sep 25, 3:46 pm, aflictultim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > ... Obviously everyone has their issues with Frank/Toad and all his nutty
> > ideas.  But hey, watching the path of ultimate and seeing that the
> > Board generally agrees together like a family on everything, I think
> > there needs to be someone put in there for change....
> >                                                  ...what will come from it is those
> > that love the sport now, can pull modified ideas from Frank/Toad that
> > can further the game without changing the complete makeup of it.  We
> > just need something NEW as players.  They seem to have a lot of that....
>
> I agree there's some appeal to this.
>
> But then there's the reality of how the UPA and board actually work
> together.  It's a relationship that shouldn't work.  There's the staff
> who work on Ultimate all day every day and know it cold, then there's
> the board who jet in once (now twice) a year and make all the big
> decisions.  Dave Lionetti, another current board member, likened it to
> having your parents fly in for XMAS, set all the rules in your house
> and leave.  We Ultimate players are natural anarchists, I flipped the
> bird at GM and started a business selling stuff back to them, and the
> thought of having authority tell me anything just about kills me.
> Most of the staff are Ultimate players and made of precisely the same
> stuff yet somehow we have to make that relationship work, and we have
> to do so so that your votes are the ultimate authority through your
> choice of who represents you, we have to wield that authority to give
> you voice.
>
> So how do we do that?  How do we make that non-functional system
> work?  Very carefully.  We've failed a lot of times.  But here are
> some keys:
>
> - You have to have a board of people who other people want to work for
> or with.  We finally got that when we hired Joey Grey.  She was the
> first really talented person we got to work full time on Ultimate and
> she told me when I hired her that the board really impressed her and
> drew her in.  Unfortunately we weren't able to make the board
> relationship work with her so went out and did a broader search for
> someone with a successful track record at leading sports orgs and
> found Sandie.  Once again we had a very good committee doing that
> search (I led it but Joe Seidler was the brains) and we did a really
> good job of recruiting her IMO.
> - You have to recruit great people into the rest of the organization
> and although that lands mostly on the director, it's also a board
> thing in that the people have to trust the board will send them on
> worthy missions.  That the board has values they can respect and will
> reach great decisions they can believe in.
> - You have to create an environment where people know they will be
> heard out when they are digging deep down wrestling with a tough
> issue.  We deal with really tough issues in board meetings and people
> have to know they aren't going to get run over if they can't quite
> articulate what they are trying to say or if they know they've got
> something important but are struggling with exactly what it is.  Bad
> decisions can happen if everybody can't get their guts out on the
> table.  Sounds awful, but it's really like that when you're trying to
> decide something like "should Canada be in the series".
> - You have to figure out ways to synthesize all of those deep thoughts
> into some galvanizing action that everyone feels energized to act
> upon.
>
> And if you do all that you end up with a great team at the UPA that's
> fired up and goes out and runs the sport incredibly well and grows it
> like crazy.  It's like having a great Ultimate team that goes out and
> wins big.  And that's what we've got.  Over the last 12 years of which
> I've been on the board 11, we've grown from a quarter million dollar
> budget to a million and a quarter (5x), from 2 people to 8 people
> (4x), and those 8 people are out kicking ass.  Nationals is better and
> better every year, we've created observer training programs, coaching
> clinics, innovation grants, grown the sanctioning program from a dozen
> tourneys a year to hundreds, gotten the richest newsletter in the
> sport out four times a year and on time now, kicked off a huge growth
> at the youth level through numerous efforts including seeding the
> sport at the high school athletic teacher level which has lead to
> 600,000 youth players who are about to get to college and want to
> play.  High school easterns/westerns/states, youth club championships,
> observers at every game at college nationals, coaching clinics created
> and now adding level II, adding mixed divisions to Nationals, growing
> Nationals from 10 teams to 16, we've done so much.
>
> An organizing clicking that well can get a massive strategic plan done
> where each board member is putting in some 100 hours to get dozens of
> focus groups to happen all across the country, lead them, digest and
> synthesize huge amounts of data and coalesce it into a plan that will
> lay the foundation for the huge growth ahead.  Add in staffers that
> not only had to make Ultimate go during that year, but grew it another
> 15% and "on the side" putting in huge hours doing the same leading,
> digging, and coalescing to create a plan that will grow Ultimate the
> way you want it grown.  That team is now out making all of this happen
> and they are incredibly good at it.  I'm on two of the committees
> pushing it forward and watching Will Deaver work with the key players
> to develop the new Grand Masters and Women's Masters Championships is
> a lot like watching him cut on the field, he's incredibly good at it.
> The other, reaching out to alumni through re-union events has Melanie
> Deaver just clicking perfectly and we'll see the first really well run
> alumni event in the sport at this years HoF induction/alumni reunion
> event in Sarasota at Nationals.  All the other major initiatives will
> also we incredibly well done, the doubling down on the observer
> system, addition of College DIV II, and more complex things like web
> site tools for leagues, tools to help leagues get fields, tools and
> relationships with colleges to get many more intramural programs into
> gear.
>
> And all of that is really really important because we've kicked off
> this nuclear explosion of growth at the youth level through seeding
> the sport to athletic directors and teachers where we now have 600,000
> of the 800,000 players being youth players.  We need to push hard now
> to create the structures and tools that will allow those players (who
> will all want to keep playing because we've got the most kick ass
> sport there is, the Ultimate sport in my opinion) to play in college
> and then beyond.
>
> I'd categorize all of those things I'm saying the board has to do to
> make that non-starter relationship that should create a huge mess of
> infighting and power struggles work and end up instead with an
> incredible kick-ass team so that all this great stuff can happen as
> "constructive."  We need to keep building up this organization like we
> have been so we can keep the sport on the wild growth path we've put
> it on.  And while I agree with the author of the post that having
> those wild oats sowed into the board would make for some really
> exciting and fun discussions, I think those folks we're talking about
> often aren't constructive but instead destructive.  There are examples
> all over rsd but one I know happened within the UPA is that Toad
> called Sandie some time after we hired her and F bombed her during the
> phone call.  What would happen with that type of scenario unfolding on
> the board level is that a lot of the energy we now direct towards
> making Ultimate better would instead get focused inwards keeping the
> wheels on as we tried to move forward.  People are people and we
> already have plenty of personnel crises that occur and because we're
> builders, we mitigate, rebuild and get everything back on track.  But
> time and energy spent on that is energy that isn't going into building
> Ultimate and getting great decisions made that energize the
> organization to go out there and continue kicking ass making Ultimate
> grow at an unprecedented rate.  There isn't anything that says we
> should have been growing at this doubling every few years rate, the
> sport and organization hadn't ever before.  There isn't anything that
> says it won't get bogged down with internal messes and just stop
> growing and running Ultimate as well as it's been run over the last
> five years.  It isn't trivial that it's been doing it as well as it
> has.  I've been working hard to create that team and an environment
> where those brilliant people that make Ultimate go every day are fully
> charged up about everything we're doing with the sport and the UPA.
> And fundamentally I need your help doing that, I need you to pick
> builders not bombers.  I agree the bombers have a good effect.  Toad
> is a friend of mine and I think he adds a lot to the sport.  But let's
> keep the bombs at a safe distance and take only the good from them and
> not introduce the destructive force at the core where real damage
> could occur to the main organization pushing the sport we love forward
> so vigorously.
>
> Henry Thorne, current board member, and board nominee.


Thank you for posting that. Keep up the good work, please.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #697 is a reply to message #692] Sat, 27 September 2008 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joadntoad
Messages: 1411
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 27, 12:48 pm, Douglas T Lilley <q3j...@yahoo.com> wrote:
..
>
> Thank you for posting that.  Keep up the good work,


yea, you should come visit the lions den more often(just make sure you
respond to my replys). you AND all the other canidates.......as well
as the present administrators for that matter.
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #698 is a reply to message #689] Sat, 27 September 2008 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joadntoad
Messages: 1411
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 27, 11:12 am, Henry Thorne <htho...@thorleyindustries.com>
wrote:
> On Sep 25, 3:46 pm, aflictultim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> - You have to have a board of people who other people want to work for
> or with.  We finally got that when we hired Joey Grey.  She was the
> first really talented person we got to work full time on Ultimate and
> she told me when I hired her that the board really impressed her and
> drew her in.  Unfortunately we weren't able to make the board
> relationship work with her so went out and did a broader search for
> someone with a successful track record at leading sports orgs and
> found Sandie.  Once again we had a very good committee doing that
> search (I led it but Joe Seidler was the brains)

uhhhhh, you really consider this a "good" committee.......with joe as
the brains. You might should have kept that little tid bit to
yourself. That guy has never even ever played the sport and is a
confirmed spirit zealot.
------------------------------------------------------------ ---
and we did a really
> good job of recruiting her IMO.


well, is she doing a good job? whats her approval rating? inside
sorces tell me they aent all that pleased.

what does that job pay anyways?
------------------------------------------------------------ ----
> - You have to recruit great people into the rest of the organization
> and although that lands mostly on the director, it's also a board
> thing in that the people have to trust the board will send them on
> worthy missions.

well then, i would propose that we move upa head quarters to NYC and
solicit one kenny dobyns as the next upa director. Look what the did
to the sport of ultimate itself. how could you deny that kind of
passion. And if he could recruit and lead such greats ON the ultimate
field just think what he could do as a director of the sport OFF the
field.
------------------------------------------------------------ --------------
 We deal with really tough issues in board meetings and people
> have to know they aren't going to get run over if they can't quite
> articulate what they are trying to say or if they know they've got
> something important but are struggling with exactly what it is.

what the hell does this mean?
--------------------------------------------
 Bad
> decisions can happen if everybody can't get their guts out on the
> table.

that surley wouldnt be a problem for me
------------------------------------------------------------ --------
 Sounds awful, but it's really like that when you're trying to
> decide something like "should Canada be in the series".


funny you mention this. I was recently contacted by a canadian
resident to see where i stand on that issue, After some dialoug and
thought told him that i would propose a merger!

and or i would at least allow van couver to bid for a franchise in my
proposed upa select corprate league series.

next issue please.
------------------------------------------------------------ -------------
> - You have to figure out ways to synthesize all of those deep thoughts
> into some galvanizing action that everyone feels energized to act
> upon.

well when i conducted my little survey the one issue that the majoity
of the responances were galvinized on the most was the idea of a upa
run select/allstar league geared at maximizing entertainment value and
marteting potential. which we both know has been a pet project of min
for over a decade now. so from this data this concept is sure
something that the membership "feels energized to act on".
------------------------------------------------------------ ---
>
> And if you do all that you end up with a great team at the UPA that's
> fired up and goes out and runs the sport incredibly well and grows it
> like crazy.  It's like having a great Ultimate team that goes out and
> wins big.

kinda like NYNY.....no team won bigger. and we all know that they
were a little hot headed too.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----
And that's what we've got.  Over the last 12 years of which
> I've been on the board 11,

11YEARS!?!?!? i'd say henry is ready for a sub. what do you think
everybody???......he's been on the field an awful long time, he's worn
out and we got fresh legs on the sideline.
----------------------------------------------------------
we've grown from a quarter million dollar
> budget to a million and a quarter (5x), from 2 people to 8 people
> (4x), and those 8 people are out kicking ass.


gettin the money thru membership rev is the simple part.......how have
you spend it is whats revealing. 8K on a logo???? and still waiting
for a final tally on thet ult rev expense.
------------------------------------------------------------ ---
 Nationals is better and
> better every year,

uhmmm, maybe i'll make my way to fla this year and see if its all that
different from the last one i was at in 92'
------------------------------------------------------------ -------
> we've created observer training programs,


yet still no standardized observers......at least at the recent upa
event i attended
------------------------------------------------------------ ----
> , gotten the richest newsletter in the
> sport out four times a year and on time now,


yea, ive been meaning to bring this up......its time to scrap that fly
swatter of a news letter and go electric(jus like bobby dylan did back
in the day). when ya finally get the actual news letter (that is if
ya get it) everything is out dated, youve already read about it on rsd
or some blog and we can even get video clips (as well as stills....but
alot more of those) in REAL TIME! so dont boast too much about that
outdated, ineffecient and ineffective expense.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----
kicked off a huge growth
> at the youth level through numerous efforts including seeding the
> sport at the high school athletic teacher level which has lead to
> 600,000 youth players who are about to get to college and want to
> play.  High school easterns/westerns/states, youth club championships,
> observers at every game at college nationals, coaching clinics created
> and now adding level II, adding mixed divisions to Nationals, growing
> Nationals from 10 teams to 16, we've done so much.

so everything seems to be falling into place as far as the bottom up
approach goes.......now what say we focus on the top down approach,
dress ultimate up and take her up town and show her off a little.
---------------------------------------------------------
>
> An organizing clicking that well can get a massive strategic plan done
> where each board member is putting in some 100 hours

a hundred.....pffft. i spend more time than that on rsd in one month.
------------------------------------------------------------ ----


to get dozens of
> focus groups to happen all across the country, lead them, digest and
> synthesize huge amounts of data and coalesce it into a plan that will
> lay the foundation for the huge growth ahead.

and still only get 10% membership response??? again, not somthing i'd
flourish.
---------------------------------------------------------
Add in staffers that
> not only had to make Ultimate go during that year, but grew it another
> 15% and "on the side" putting in huge hours doing the same leading,
> digging, and coalescing to create a plan that will grow Ultimate the
> way you want it grown.

how can you be so sure is how "we" want it grown when you only got
feed back from 10% of us???
------------------------------------------------------------ --
That team is now out making all of this happen
> and they are incredibly good at it.

and your bench mark for good, again, is joe seidler???? and
"incredibly good" compared to what. what other "teams" have you
faced?
------------------------------------------------------------
 I'm on two of the committees
> pushing it forward and watching Will Deaver work with the key players
> to develop the new Grand Masters and Women's Masters Championships is
> a lot like watching him cut on the field, he's incredibly good at it.


wait til you watch me develope a select corprate series.....and get us
into a little international action.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------
>
> And all of that is really really important because we've kicked off
> this nuclear explosion of growth at the youth level through seeding
> the sport to athletic directors and teachers where we now have 600,000
> of the 800,000 players being youth players.  We need to push hard now
> to create the structures and tools that will allow those players (who
> will all want to keep playing because we've got the most kick ass
> sport there is, the Ultimate sport in my opinion) to play in college
> and then beyond.


not to mention give them a select league to aspire to play in one day
with select players that they can look up to and try and immulaten
through the promotion of a modernized and marketable form of select
ultimate entertainment.
------------------------------------------------------------ -------------
>
> I'd categorize all of those things I'm saying the board has to do to
> make that non-starter relationship that should create a huge mess of
> infighting and power struggles work and end up instead with an
> incredible kick-ass team so that all this great stuff can happen as
> "constructive."

yea, problem with that is that some people just arent being
represented but rather its that small team/clique of people pushin
their own collective agenda.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------
 We need to keep building up this organization like we
> have been so we can keep the sport on the wild growth path we've put
> it on.

are you suggesting there should be NO new board members???? wouldnt
things get a little.....stale?
------------------------------------------------------------ ----
 And while I agree with the author of the post that having
> those wild oats sowed into the board would make for some really
> exciting and fun discussions, I think those folks we're talking about
> often aren't constructive but instead destructive.  There are examples
> all over rsd but one I know happened within the UPA is that Toad
> called Sandie some time after we hired her and F bombed her during the
> phone call.

no such thing EVER HAPPENED. this is pure propaganda. But i will say
this about some run ins i had with past upa board members.......while
i was trying to promote refereed versions of ultimate, back in 95
originally and again in 05 i was contacted by irate board members
offering death threats (and other forms of violence) if i were to
follow thru with my plans of introducing refs to ultimate. I'm tellin
ya, those spirit people are crazy serious about keepin refs out of
ultimate.

on the other hand......its not like i havent herd the F bonb dropped a
gazillion times in animosity between oppontents ON the ultimate
field. Not trying to justify anyting as i sincerly have no
recolection of cursing sandie out.

Do you have any idea what the verocity of my explictis were in
reference to henry?
-------------------------------------------------------
What would happen with that type of scenario unfolding on
> the board level is that a lot of the energy we now direct towards
> making Ultimate better would instead get focused inwards keeping the
> wheels on as we tried to move forward.

is that why you guys spent sooooo much board time talkin about spirit
scores........which my data shows very few people are supportive of.
------------------------------------------------------------
People are people and we
> already have plenty of personnel crises that occur and because we're
> builders,

hold on now......i believe that i'm the only builder around
here.......licenced AND insured.
----------------------------------------------------
> we mitigate, rebuild and get everything back on track.



well ya might want to get your foundation looked at by a
professional......because it think the codes that it was built on are
severly outdated.
------------------------------------------------------------ ------
 But
> time and energy spent on that is energy that isn't going into building
> Ultimate and getting great decisions made that energize the
> organization to go out there and continue kicking ass making Ultimate
> grow at an unprecedented rate.


ya mean like all the time energy AND MONEY that was put(misspent) into
an assessment program that didnt even yield 10% feedback from the
membership.
-------------------------------------------------------
 There isn't anything that says we
> should have been growing at this doubling every few years rate, the
> sport and organization hadn't ever before.  There isn't anything that
> says it won't get bogged down with internal messes and just stop
> growing and running Ultimate as well as it's been run over the last
> five years.  It isn't trivial that it's been doing it as well as it
> has.  I've been working hard to create that team and an environment
> where those brilliant people that make Ultimate go every day are fully
> charged up about everything we're doing with the sport and the UPA.


but the simple fact is that there is a large portion of the membership
that aint all that charged up about "everything you are doing".
------------------------------------------------------------ ---------
> And fundamentally I need your help doing that, I need you to pick
> builders not bombers.

like i say......licenced and insured
------------------------------------------------------------ ----------
>I agree the bombers have a good effect.


and what is that exactly?
------------------------------------------------------------ ----
 Toad
> is a friend of mine

yea, some friend. do you run campaign smear posts on all your
"friends".
-----------------------------------------------------
>and I think he adds a lot to the sport.

like what?
----------------------------------------------------
 But let's
> keep the bombs at a safe distance and take only the good from them and
> not introduce the destructive force at the core where real damage
> could occur to the main organization pushing the sport we love forward
> so vigorously.



oh i seeeeeee, you are trying to make a distinction between me and
frank here. i'm with ya henry, wink, wink.

So what you are essentially saying is........

VOTE LEBER/THORN IN 08'!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Vote for Frank/Toad [message #703 is a reply to message #698] Sat, 27 September 2008 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 27, 4:11 pm, joadnt...@ec.rr.com wrote:

> And that's what we've got.  Over the last 12 years of which
>
> > I've been on the board 11,
>
> 11YEARS!?!?!?   i'd say henry is ready for a sub.   what do you think
> everybody???......he's been on the field an awful long time, he's worn
> out and we got fresh legs on the sideline.
> ----------------------------------------------------------

That's funny. But it seems to me like he's been getting a lot done.
Let me take a turn speaking for the silent majority and say that we
could use another term out of Henry Thorne and other candidates like
Henry Thorne (in terms of qualifications -- diversity of experience/
perspective is great, too).
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