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Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98267] Mon, 30 May 2011 18:31 Go to next message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
I updated the Ultimate History "Team / City Stats" to include the
results of college nationals today:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/teamcityrankings/
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98271 is a reply to message #98267] Mon, 30 May 2011 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam Tarr
Messages: 214
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
It's been a pretty remarkable run in the last six years for Wisconsin, Carleton, and Florida. Wisconsin with 2 titles, two finals losses, one quarters appearance, and one other nationals appearance. Carleton with two titles, one finals loss, one semis loss, one quarters appearance, and one missed nationals. Florida with two titles, one finals loss, one semis loss, one other nationals appearance, and one missed nationals. And then there's Colorado, with two finals losses, two semis losses, one quarters appearance, and one other nationals appearance... plus a finals loss and a finals win in the two years before that.
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98279 is a reply to message #98271] Mon, 30 May 2011 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bart
Messages: 11
Registered: May 2009
Junior Member
Joe --

Did you change the values for each finish? I feel like they were 3-2-1 just a couple of days ago. I though that captured it better. Not sure a title should be worth 6 times a semis finish if you are trying to capture the strength of a program.

Bart
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98281 is a reply to message #98279] Mon, 30 May 2011 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
On May 30, 9:45 pm, Bart <bart.wat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Joe --
>
> Did you change the values for each finish?  I feel like they
> were 3-2-1 just a couple of days ago.  I though that
> captured it better.  Not sure a title should be worth 6
> times a semis finish if you are trying to capture the
> strength of a program.
>
> Bart
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

Wow Bart, you are observant. Yes I did just change it from 3-2-1 to
6-3-1. I did it for two reasons:

1. In other parts of the Ultimate History website, I have been using
6-3-1.
2. I thought it might represent the value of being in the finals more
accurately. That is, before, getting to the finals but losing was only
twice the value of losing in the semis (2 vs 1). The 6-3-1 method
makes it at least three times the value to get to finals. Winning vs
losing in the finals is only a factor of two.

I actually prefer a more complex method which gives the winner of
finals a 6, and gives the loser "6 - final score differential" with a
minimum of 3. So if finals was 16-15 (hard cap), the loser would get 5
points. If the score was 15-12 (or worse), the loser would get 3
points. I tried this method here:
http://www.ultimatehistory.com/teamcityrankings/Pg/bestclubo penteamsince1998.html

What do you think?
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98290 is a reply to message #98281] Tue, 31 May 2011 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pizzaslot
Messages: 134
Registered: November 2008
Senior Member
On May 31, 12:18 am, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
> On May 30, 9:45 pm, Bart <bart.wat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Joe --
>
> > Did you change the values for each finish?  I feel like they
> > were 3-2-1 just a couple of days ago.  I though that
> > captured it better.  Not sure a title should be worth 6
> > times a semis finish if you are trying to capture the
> > strength of a program.
>
> > Bart
> > --
> > Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
>
> Wow Bart, you are observant. Yes I did just change it from 3-2-1 to
> 6-3-1. I did it for two reasons:
>
> 1. In other parts of the Ultimate History website, I have been using
> 6-3-1.
> 2. I thought it might represent the value of being in the finals more
> accurately. That is, before, getting to the finals but losing was only
> twice the value of losing in the semis (2 vs 1). The 6-3-1 method
> makes it at least three times the value to get to finals. Winning vs
> losing in the finals is only a factor of two.
>
> I actually prefer a more complex method which gives the winner of
> finals a 6, and gives the loser "6 - final score differential" with a
> minimum of 3. So if finals was 16-15 (hard cap), the loser would get 5
> points. If the score was 15-12 (or worse), the loser would get 3
> points. I tried this method here:http://www.ultimatehistory.com/teamcityrankings/Pg/best clubopenteamsi...
>
> What do you think?

It is sound logic, but also conveniently creates more separation for
Joe's favorite team,who hasn't been faring well as of late. If you
use the old algorithm, UCSB overall total is 29, with Stanford and
Carleton trailing close behind with 23 and 22 respectively.

Just kidding Joe.
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98311 is a reply to message #98281] Tue, 31 May 2011 07:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bart
Messages: 11
Registered: May 2009
Junior Member
I like the score differential idea for club, but imagine it might be too big a factor in college -- since those teams are far more inconsistent. There haven't been that many college finals where the score differential was less than three.

I guess the debate is how much you value good versus great. In the flip of pizzaslot's comment, maybe if my Stanford boys could stop getting knocked out in semis, I wouldn't mind the 6-3-1 so much...

Bart
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98316 is a reply to message #98311] Tue, 31 May 2011 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stuck
Messages: 1
Registered: May 2011
Junior Member
Merge northfield and the Twin Cities in the total championship category? It's currently with Blaine, which is on the opposite side of the cities.
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98642 is a reply to message #98316] Wed, 01 June 2011 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
On May 31, 8:40 am, sam <tucker....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Merge northfield and the Twin Cities in the total
> championship category? It's currently with Blaine, which is
> on the opposite side of the cities.
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

I wondered about this. Since Northfield is a pretty good drive south
of the Twin Cities and not really a suburb, I decided not to combine
them. I would very much appreciate comments on this.

I might compare this to Atlanta and Athens, GA (Univ. of Georgia). I
don't think they should be combined, but I'm open to other opinions.
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98643 is a reply to message #98290] Thu, 02 June 2011 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
On May 31, 5:01 am, pizzaslot <pizzasl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 31, 12:18 am, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 30, 9:45 pm, Bart <bart.wat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Joe --
>
> > > Did you change the values for each finish?  I feel like they
> > > were 3-2-1 just a couple of days ago.  I though that
> > > captured it better.  Not sure a title should be worth 6
> > > times a semis finish if you are trying to capture the
> > > strength of a program.
>
> > > Bart
> > > --
> > > Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
>
> > Wow Bart, you are observant. Yes I did just change it from 3-2-1 to
> > 6-3-1. I did it for two reasons:
>
> > 1. In other parts of the Ultimate History website, I have been using
> > 6-3-1.
> > 2. I thought it might represent the value of being in the finals more
> > accurately. That is, before, getting to the finals but losing was only
> > twice the value of losing in the semis (2 vs 1). The 6-3-1 method
> > makes it at least three times the value to get to finals. Winning vs
> > losing in the finals is only a factor of two.
>
> > I actually prefer a more complex method which gives the winner of
> > finals a 6, and gives the loser "6 - final score differential" with a
> > minimum of 3. So if finals was 16-15 (hard cap), the loser would get 5
> > points. If the score was 15-12 (or worse), the loser would get 3
> > points. I tried this method here:http://www.ultimatehistory.com/teamcityrankings/Pg/best clubopenteamsi...
>
> > What do you think?
>
> It is sound logic, but also conveniently creates more separation for
> Joe's favorite team,who hasn't been faring well as of late.  If you
> use the old algorithm, UCSB overall total is 29, with Stanford and
> Carleton trailing close behind with 23 and 22 respectively.
>
> Just kidding Joe.

I was mostly thinking about the difference between the teams with the
lower totals. The change to 6-3-1 actually changed a few rankings/
placings from the old 3-2-1.
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98644 is a reply to message #98311] Thu, 02 June 2011 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
On May 31, 8:00 am, Bart <bart.wat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like the score differential idea for club, but imagine it
> might be too big a factor in college -- since those teams
> are far more inconsistent.  There haven't been that many
> college finals where the score differential was less than
> three.
>
> I guess the debate is how much you value good versus great.
> In the flip of pizzaslot's comment, maybe if my Stanford
> boys could stop getting knocked out in semis, I wouldn't
> mind the 6-3-1 so much...
>
> Bart
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

Your Stanford boys would still be one point ahead of Carleton with the
old 3-2-1 rather than tied using the new 6-3-1.
Re: Ultimate Team / City Stats [message #98734 is a reply to message #98316] Thu, 02 June 2011 23:06 Go to previous message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
On May 31, 8:40 am, sam <tucker....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Merge northfield and the Twin Cities in the total
> championship category? It's currently with Blaine, which is
> on the opposite side of the cities.
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

I removed the incorrect mention of Blaine on the Ultimate History
Cities/Teams web page.
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