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MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77741] Mon, 20 September 2010 18:36 Go to next message
bjm
Messages: 76
Registered: September 2008
Member
An initial crack at MA mixed seedings, based mostly on Chesapeake and
Sectional finishes...

1. wHagonweel
2. Renegade
3. AMP
4. Motorcade
5. Blue Print
6. Muff n Men
7. TAU
8. Casual Encounters
9. Germ Circus
10. Hooray
11. District Disc Club
12. The Right Coast
13. Seven Minutes in Heaven
14. Hustlers
15. Dirty People
16. Jug Handle

Sectional finishes prevent some re-ordering to better suit earlier
results, per usual.

I think there are two bids, which I think means TD/RC gets to pick
between format 16.2.1 (bracket) and 16.2.2 (pool play). I think the
pools would be per table 16.1.3:

Pool A:
wHagonweel
Casual Encounters
Hooray
Dirty People

Pool B:
Renegade
TAU
Germ Circus
Jug Handle

Pool C:
AMP
Muff n Men
The Right Coast
Seven Minutes

Pool D:
Motorcade
Blue Print
District Disc Club
Hustlers


BJM
TAU #13
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77743 is a reply to message #77741] Mon, 20 September 2010 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Don't see why Renegade should be above Amp. They are 1-1, with Amp
holding the higher margin of victory, better head to head, and better
RRI.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77745 is a reply to message #77743] Mon, 20 September 2010 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Also, MA Mixed Regionals has been bracket play for as long as I've
been playing (5 years), and hopefully will remain that way for this
year.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77756 is a reply to message #77743] Mon, 20 September 2010 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bjm
Messages: 76
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 20, 9:53 pm, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't see why Renegade should be above Amp.  They are 1-1, with Amp
> holding the higher margin of victory, better head to head, and better
> RRI.

Yup, definitely fair. I went based on finish at Chesapeake, but it
sounds like I missed more important details.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77763 is a reply to message #77741] Mon, 20 September 2010 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sean
Messages: 39
Registered: September 2008
Member
the right coast would destroy #8-11 in your seedings
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77764 is a reply to message #77741] Mon, 20 September 2010 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sean
Messages: 39
Registered: September 2008
Member
the right coast would destroy #8-11 in your seedings
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77767 is a reply to message #77741] Mon, 20 September 2010 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tal1286
Messages: 25
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
Aren't Renegade's higher finish at Chesapeake and more recent victory more important than AMP's earlier win and RRI?
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77772 is a reply to message #77767] Mon, 20 September 2010 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
"Higher finish and more recent victory" doesn't really count for much
when you are talking about two games in the same tournament. Amp's
pool play win (by 4) vs Renegade's consolation win (on universe) the
next day (and obviously higher finish predicated on this consolation
game).

On Sep 21, 12:05 am, tal1286 <tal1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Aren't Renegade's higher finish at Chesapeake and more
> recent victory more important than AMP's earlier win and
> RRI?
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77773 is a reply to message #77772] Mon, 20 September 2010 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tal1286
Messages: 25
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
Yeah, I guess it depends how the RC weights different things. From the guidelines:

"Seeding for Sectionals and Regionals and the UPA Championships will be done by the coordinator using the following information: input solicited from all the captains of participating teams; results prior to the Series (e.g. head to head, common opponents, tournament finish); results of last year's Series; and other applicable information (e.g. team composition, conditions). The coordinator has the authority to adjust rankings according to the best information available."

I guess we'll see how things shake out. Probably could go either way.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77788 is a reply to message #77773] Tue, 21 September 2010 05:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SeeEmYou44
Messages: 2
Registered: September 2010
Junior Member
http://scores.usaultimate.org/scores/#mixed/seeding/7511
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77789 is a reply to message #77763] Tue, 21 September 2010 05:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bjm
Messages: 76
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 20, 11:45 pm, Sean <zel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> the right coast would destroy #8-11 in your seedings
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

Yup, I agree here too. In fact, after playing a few other teams in the
NC section, Clean Plate Club and Backfire, I wish we had more bids
from the NC section to regionals because I think we had 5 teams in our
section that could have held their own at regionals this year.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77795 is a reply to message #77788] Tue, 21 September 2010 06:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
heltzooor
Messages: 69
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 21, 8:16 am, See <vcdeva...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://scores.usaultimate.org/scores/#mixed/seeding/7511
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

Disagree with the "8 to 11" comment.

DDC is likely to finish with a bid to natties... watchout, nobody
wants them in their pool.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77796 is a reply to message #77772] Tue, 21 September 2010 06:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
heltzooor
Messages: 69
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 21, 12:42 am, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Higher finish and more recent victory" doesn't really count for much
> when you are talking about two games in the same tournament.  Amp's
> pool play win (by 4) vs Renegade's consolation win (on universe) the
> next day (and obviously higher finish predicated on this consolation
> game).
>
> On Sep 21, 12:05 am, tal1286 <tal1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Aren't Renegade's higher finish at Chesapeake and more
> > recent victory more important than AMP's earlier win and
> > RRI?
> > --
> > Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

This is poor reasoning. Sunday is always worth more than Saturday.
Most recent result always trump former H-T-H result.

Renegade deserves it over AMP.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77799 is a reply to message #77796] Tue, 21 September 2010 06:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff
Messages: 338
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
rumor has it that AMP was still conducting tryouts at Chesapeake ...

On Sep 21, 9:28 am, heltzooor <helt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 21, 12:42 am, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Higher finish and more recent victory" doesn't really count for much
> > when you are talking about two games in the same tournament.  Amp's
> > pool play win (by 4) vs Renegade's consolation win (on universe) the
> > next day (and obviously higher finish predicated on this consolation
> > game).
>
> > On Sep 21, 12:05 am, tal1286 <tal1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Aren't Renegade's higher finish at Chesapeake and more
> > > recent victory more important than AMP's earlier win and
> > > RRI?
> > > --
> > > Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
>
> This is poor reasoning. Sunday is always worth more than Saturday.
> Most recent result always trump former H-T-H result.
>
> Renegade deserves it over AMP.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77800 is a reply to message #77799] Tue, 21 September 2010 06:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
heltzooor
Messages: 69
Registered: September 2008
Member
that's not pertinent.
you are who you bring to the tournament.
that's not renegade's fault.

******************************
rumor has it that AMP was still conducting tryouts at Chesapeake ...
******************************
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77802 is a reply to message #77800] Tue, 21 September 2010 07:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rrudnic
Messages: 194
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
Germ is way to high they will drop multiple spots by the end of the
tournament.

DDC is really good and from talking to them at Sectionals they didn't
have full squad and hadn't even practiced together. I see them jumping
up several spots, although I think that Nationals comment might be a
bit of a stretch.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77805 is a reply to message #77800] Tue, 21 September 2010 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
yeah, and renegade lost to Germ Circus at Philly invite (who Amp
Crushed).

and Sunday results of a consolation game being worth that much more is
ridiculous. If anything a pool play game is more important than a
consolation game because both teams are still in it for the
championship.

On Sep 21, 9:45 am, heltzooor <helt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> that's not pertinent.
> you are who you bring to the tournament.
> that's not renegade's fault.
>
> ******************************
> rumor has it that AMP was still conducting tryouts at Chesapeake ...
> ******************************
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77806 is a reply to message #77741] Tue, 21 September 2010 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T
Messages: 110
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Tough b/c they didn't do any tournaments, but Right Coast needs to be
immediately behind TAU. They actually were 1-0 against TAU at
sectionals but finished behind them b/c of the short end of a three
way tie after pool play. They were also 2-0 against Backfire, who has
a win over AMP, two wins over Motorcade, and a DGP loss to Renegade.
Not to mention they're good enough to contend for a nationals bid.

Troy
Backfire #1
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77810 is a reply to message #77806] Tue, 21 September 2010 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cosgcm5
Messages: 33
Registered: February 2010
Member

Troy, Right Coast didn't get the short end of a three way tie, they finished 3-2 in pool play (TAU and wagonwheel both finished 4-1). They did beat TAU 13-10 on Saturday morning, and I agree with you that these two should be close in the seedings. Look out for this team, not a lot of results, but they are more than legit.

-POW
Coz
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77812 is a reply to message #77805] Tue, 21 September 2010 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
heltzooor
Messages: 69
Registered: September 2008
Member
Still disagree. Head to head is more valuable then your math equation.

Still disagree on pool play being worth more in this situation. Both
teams knew that the outcome of that game could decide seeding at
Regionals.


On Sep 21, 11:08 am, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yeah, and renegade lost to Germ Circus at Philly invite (who Amp
> Crushed).
>
> and Sunday results of a consolation game being worth that much more is
> ridiculous. If anything a pool play game is more important than a
> consolation game because both teams are still in it for the
> championship.
>
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77813 is a reply to message #77810] Tue, 21 September 2010 09:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mgd.mitch
Messages: 1207
Registered: January 2009
Senior Member
Right coast has some of UNCW's top college talent (at least on the men's side, can't comment on the ladies due to my ignorance), so they can hold their own against some pretty good teams. Regionals should be pretty interesting. Sad I won't be able to work that tourney.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77820 is a reply to message #77812] Tue, 21 September 2010 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Both teams also knew that the other games they played would also
factor into seeding.

Yes, Head to Head is the most valuable information. And they are
tied, 1-1, with both games from the same weekend. Your argument is
essentially that the timing of one point of ultimate (since it was a
universe win) should trump the other info that is in Amp's favor.

Of the two games, Amp won one by 4, and lost one by 1.
Renegade lost to Germ Circus, Muff n' Men, and Gun Totin' Teddy Bears,
all of whom Amp beat.
Backfire beat Amp by 1 and lost to Renegade by 1
They both beat Casual Encounters and Fingerbang, and lost to Bucket

This does not add up to Renegade being seeded higher, because they won
a game on sunday instead of saturday.

On Sep 21, 11:59 am, heltzooor <helt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Still disagree. Head to head is more valuable then your math equation.
>
> Still disagree on pool play being worth more in this situation. Both
> teams knew that the outcome of that game could decide seeding at
> Regionals.
>
> On Sep 21, 11:08 am, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > yeah, and renegade lost to Germ Circus at Philly invite (who Amp
> > Crushed).
>
> > and Sunday results of a consolation game being worth that much more is
> > ridiculous. If anything a pool play game is more important than a
> > consolation game because both teams are still in it for the
> > championship.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77825 is a reply to message #77810] Tue, 21 September 2010 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T
Messages: 110
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 21, 11:50 am, Coz <cosg...@wfu.edu> wrote:
> Troy, Right Coast didn't get the short end of a three way
> tie, they finished 3-2 in pool play (TAU and wagonwheel both
> finished 4-1). They did beat TAU 13-10 on Saturday morning,
> and I agree with you that these two should be close in the
> seedings. Look out for this team, not a lot of results, but
> they are more than legit.
>
> -POW
> Coz
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com


Oh right, sorry forgot how that last pool play game ended. Still
quirky to finish 3rd and be 1-0 against the 2nd place team.

T
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77835 is a reply to message #77805] Tue, 21 September 2010 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
samlstein
Messages: 8
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
"yeah, and renegade lost to Germ Circus at Philly invite (who Amp
Crushed)"

The Renegade folks might not even care about the difference between the 2 and 3 seeds or they might feel lame making this argument, but this should probably be put out there...

Philly Invite was Renegade's first ever tournament. Sure, I'm guessing AMP had some newer players/etc, but that was probably something like their team's 50th tournament.

There are plenty of times (maybe even the majority of cases) when July results should be given plenty of weight. But in the case of Renegade, it really doesn't make a lot of sense to look at that tournament for the sake of assessing where they stand as of 9am on October 2.

Note - I am not actually arguing for one team being seeded ahead of the other... just saying AMP's case should not be built based on Renegade's results from their first ever tournament.

Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77837 is a reply to message #77835] Tue, 21 September 2010 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bulb
Messages: 1093
Registered: September 2008
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Senior Member
samlstein wrote on Tue, 21 September 2010 15:24
Philly Invite was Renegade's first ever tournament. Sure, I'm guessing AMP had some newer players/etc, but that was probably something like their team's 50th tournament.


We aren't talking about professional sports franchises, with owners, scouts, general managers, etc. We are just talking about a team name. Amp has about 7 returning members from its 2009 squad. As far as seeding for the USAU Championship series is concerned, results are results, whether they are from a team's 1st or 50th tournament.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77841 is a reply to message #77820] Tue, 21 September 2010 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
heltzooor
Messages: 69
Registered: September 2008
Member
Alex, I think your value propositions are nice, but misguided.
You frame the Sunday game as consolation. It wasn't -- it was to
determine who fought on to play for 9th.
If you characterize that game as consolation then more than half of
all Sunday games at every tournament don't matter for seeding in your
view. This is a poor thesis.

Facts that are pertinent. In the last game of a 1-1 series that these
teams played each other in, Renegade won and that win caused them to
finish ahead of Amp at a major tournament. Done. No need to look
elsewhere. Any other justifications are just those. If they wanted to
be seeded 2, they should have taken care of business.

This isn't an epic situation like what sometimes happens where 4
different teams all beat each other and it's just a morass. Sure in
that situation you start feeling around for other metrics. This isn't
that. This is easy.

Also, I have no dog in this fight and really don't care how this
discussion ends except that I expect both teams to lose to DDC. No
pressure.

>
> > On Sep 21, 11:08 am, Alex Peters <muis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > yeah, and renegade lost to Germ Circus at Philly invite (who Amp
> > > Crushed).
>
> > > and Sunday results of a consolation game being worth that much more is
> > > ridiculous. If anything a pool play game is more important than a
> > > consolation game because both teams are still in it for the
> > > championship.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77842 is a reply to message #77837] Tue, 21 September 2010 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Knappy
Messages: 830
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
As a former TD for mixed regionals & veteran contributor to regional seeding, it's pretty clear that AMP will almost certainly be seeded #2 above Renegades based upon the data available.

You can argue all you want about the value of a consolation game universe win over a pool play win at the same tourney, but there is plenty of other evidence to tip the scales in AMP's favor. (RRI, quality wins, recent historical strength of Founders' section, AMP won region in 2009, etc.)

Overall, it looks to be a much weaker MA region this year. This saddens me. But, tough to top a year where you had 2 top 5 finishers (Axis & AMP), one of whom won it all.

Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77846 is a reply to message #77841] Tue, 21 September 2010 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alex Peters
Messages: 287
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
>If you characterize that game as consolation then more than half of
>all Sunday games at every tournament don't matter for seeding in your
>view. This is a poor thesis.

Who said they don't matter? Now you are just putting words in my
mouth. They are games that count just like any other, I just don't
think that the fact that it is on Sunday, or that it was to play for
9th place has any real bearing on the importance of that game vs the
importance of the first game. The reason they consider the recentness
of victories is based on the assumption that a team may have gotten
better after a period of time (or acquired better players), not to say
that sunday games have significant importance for future seedings vs
saturday games.

> Facts that are pertinent. In the last game of a 1-1 series that these
> teams played each other in, Renegade won and that win caused them to
> finish ahead of Amp at a major tournament. Done. No need to look
> elsewhere. Any other justifications are just those. If they wanted to
> be seeded 2, they should have taken care of business.

Facts that are pertinent. In their only meeting of the year that
these
teams played each other, Germ Circus beat Renegade by a large margin
and that win caused them to
finish ahead of Renegade at a major tournament. Done. No need to look
elsewhere. Any other justifications are just those. If Renegade
wanted to
be seeded ahead of Germ Circus, they should have taken care of
business.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77849 is a reply to message #77846] Tue, 21 September 2010 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
samlstein
Messages: 8
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
Some interestingly contradictory arguments for Amp showing up here:

"Amp has about 7 returning members from its 2009 squad. As far as seeding for the USAU Championship series is concerned, results are results, whether they are from a team's 1st or 50th tournament."

"recent historical strength of Founders' section, AMP won region in 2009"

So Amp only had a few returning members from its 2009 squad... yet Amp winning the region last year should somehow still factor into the seeding? And recent historical strength of a section should count... yet somehow that doesn't help the team from the section where the 2009 national champs hailed from?

Anyway - my point from before really is that when you've got two teams without a clear head-to-head advantage and without a sectional finish dictating their seeding order, the seeding should primarily reflect the most recent tournament results and current perceived strength (i.e. who would be favored if Vegas included ultimate in their sports betting). I have not seen either Amp or Renegade play at all and have no clue who that would be.

I just know that looking back at non-head-to-head results from a team's first ever tournament (two months and four tournaments ago) will not help much.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77882 is a reply to message #77849] Wed, 22 September 2010 07:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Knappy
Messages: 830
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
I like to contradict Bulb.

Also, note the order in which I listed my additional criteria.

RRI & quality wins (e.g., Amp handed District 5 their only loss @ boston invite, I believe) were listed ahead of historical criteria.

Anyway, who really cares? Not a big difference between a 2 & 3 seed

Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77884 is a reply to message #77849] Wed, 22 September 2010 07:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
UltiPhotos
Messages: 36
Registered: May 2010
Member

All I know is I can't wait to photograph the tournament. I'm renting a pro long lens for MA Regionals, the Nikon 200-400mm F4 to better capture the distant action.

Just FWIW, having seen Renegade play at Chesapeake and at Sectionals, they looked better at Sectionals on Sunday than at Chesapeake. Whether that's the level of competition or that they've just gelled further, it's hard to say.

However, I must agree with Knappy's point that overall the Region appears weaker than last year (hard to avoid when the reigning Nationals champ parts ways and several other top teams suffer a lot of turnover and restructuring). I hope they prove us wrong tho!


-Kevin
http://www.ultiphotos.com
http://www.facebook.com/UltiPhotos
http://www.twitter.com/UltiPhotos
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77890 is a reply to message #77849] Wed, 22 September 2010 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mz17
Messages: 15
Registered: August 2010
Junior Member
Being seeded 2 or 3 is of minimal importance unless there is a significant difference in the caliber of the teams seeded 6 and 7. Also, there is no guarantee that 6 will be the preferred opponent. Cue discussion of who the 6 and 7 seed will be.

-mZ


Aside: logic nazi. You start from premise/assumption Y and reach conclusion X. You start from premise/assumption opposite of Y and reach conclusion X. Conclusion X is true regardless of Y.

That is to say if two different people reach the same conclusion from contradictory premise, that doesn't make the conclusion false, it makes the premise irrelevant.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77892 is a reply to message #77882] Wed, 22 September 2010 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
samlstein
Messages: 8
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
"Anyway, who really cares? Not a big difference between a 2 & 3 seed"

Agreed... unless there's some truly unusual disparity between 6 and 7, it's pretty meaningless. I was mainly participating in a more theoretical context anyway (not really thinking specifically about Amp or Renegade).

Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77895 is a reply to message #77892] Wed, 22 September 2010 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T H
Messages: 1142
Registered: July 2009
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Senior Member
why not look at how situations like this have been handled in the past? either at the regional or national level. a similiar situation has to have occurred somewhere, right? what was done then? how did it work out?
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77903 is a reply to message #77895] Wed, 22 September 2010 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gcooke
Messages: 22
Registered: November 2008
Junior Member
Hi,

First year I really don't know the teams. I believe that there are a few Whiptails Alums on Renegades....which is cool.

My take on the Renegade/Amp seeding:

Head to Head: 1-1 at the same tournament. Roster make-up on either side is irrelevant. Recent tournament, so that counts for something. I would say that the bracket win for Renegade maybe means slightly more, but overall...H2H is a wash.

RRI: not used for seeding:

RACO:AMP is 5-3, Renegade 4-6

Amp is 2 seed, Renegade is 3.

-George
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77932 is a reply to message #77903] Thu, 23 September 2010 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mz17
Messages: 15
Registered: August 2010
Junior Member
Seedings have been posted:
http://scores.usaultimate.org/scores/#mixed/tournament/7511

1: wHagonweel
2: AMP
3: Renegade
4: Blueprint
5: The Muff 'n Men
6: Motorcade
7: TAU
8: The Right Coast
9: Casual Encounters
10: District Disc Club
11: Germ Circus
12: Hooray for Coed, Hooray
13: Seven Minutes In Heaven
14: Hustlers
15: Dirty People
16: Jug Handle

----

Thoughts:
TAU under seeded? They traded games with wHagonwheel at sectionals. Despite the lose to the right coast they did finish higher and therefore don't really need to be seeded down.

blueprint over seeded? They're results look inflated since they changed their name after Philly invite (formerly NJ mixed).

Muffin men over seeded? Not significantly weaker Blue Print, otherwise their record is not too impressive.

Motorcade, on par with Muffin men, seeded behind due to head to head.

4: TAU
5: Blueprint
6: Muffin men
7: Motorcade

I don't know anything about the right coast but I wouldn't be surprised if they also could use a bump up. NC has the strongest section.

-mZ
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77935 is a reply to message #77932] Thu, 23 September 2010 08:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dnernberg
Messages: 14
Registered: September 2010
Junior Member
Seedings look right to me.

Tau has an argument but they lost to Bluprint at Chesapeake, who beat Muff at sections. Tau also lost to Hooray at Chesapeake who Muff beat at Chesapeake and at Sections. Motorcade beat Blueprint but also lost to Muff.

I have a horse in the race but I dont see how Tau moves above Blueprint due to head to head. Could argue that it belongs above Motorcade or Muff but it seems a toss up. Moving teams around just to do it. Ultimately the difference between 5 through 7 is no big deal, Hooray, Germ and District Disc all have some strong wins this year and can step up when need be.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77937 is a reply to message #77932] Thu, 23 September 2010 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pkaposta
Messages: 99
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Sep 23, 11:33 am, Mike <michael.zarg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seedings have been posted:http://scores.usaultimate.org/scores/#mixed/tournamen t/7511
>
> 1: wHagonweel  
> 2: AMP  
> 3: Renegade
> 4: Blueprint
> 5: The Muff 'n Men
> 6: Motorcade
> 7: TAU
> 8: The Right Coast
> 9: Casual Encounters
> 10: District Disc Club
> 11: Germ Circus
> 12: Hooray for Coed, Hooray
> 13: Seven Minutes In Heaven
> 14: Hustlers
> 15: Dirty People
> 16: Jug Handle
>
> ----
>
> Thoughts:
> TAU under seeded? They traded games with wHagonwheel at
> sectionals.  Despite the lose to the right coast they did
> finish higher and therefore don't really need to be seeded
> down.
>
> blueprint over seeded?  They're results look inflated since
> they changed their name after Philly invite (formerly NJ
> mixed).
>
> Muffin men over seeded? Not significantly weaker Blue Print,
> otherwise their record is not too impressive.
>
> Motorcade, on par with Muffin men, seeded behind due to head
> to head.
>
> 4: TAU
> 5: Blueprint
> 6: Muffin men
> 7: Motorcade
>
> I don't know anything about the right coast but I wouldn't
> be surprised if they also could use a bump up.  NC has the
> strongest section.
>
> -mZ
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

question to everyone- why are we weighing loses for teams that have
them and then always talking up teams without pre-series results?
shouldnt the season be more important? It seems rather absurd to be
seeding teams that come out of a strong section but without any other
results over teams with a similar rri who has been playing all season,
under the same name and not throwing away all their early season
loses.
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77942 is a reply to message #77935] Thu, 23 September 2010 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scott
Messages: 16
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
4- Blueprint H2H over TAU and Muff n Men
5 - TAU 3 wins over Whagonweel (the overall #1 seed) and over Amer
Hyperbole
6- Muff n Men Losses to BP and H2H win over Motorcade
7 - Motorcade Motorcade beat BP, but lost H@H with Muff

-Scott
Re: MA Mixed Regionals Seedings [message #77943 is a reply to message #77935] Thu, 23 September 2010 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
bjm
Messages: 76
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 23, 12:20 pm, Nern <dnernb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Seedings look right to me.
>
> Tau has an argument but they lost to Bluprint at Chesapeake,
> who beat Muff at sections. Tau also lost to Hooray at
> Chesapeake who Muff beat at Chesapeake and at Sections.
> Motorcade beat Blueprint but also lost to Muff.
>
> I have a horse in the race but I dont see how Tau moves
> above Blueprint due to head to head. Could argue that it
> belongs above Motorcade or Muff but it seems a toss up.
> Moving teams around just to do it. Ultimately the difference
> between 5 through 7 is no big deal, Hooray, Germ and
> District Disc all have some strong wins this year and can
> step up when need be.
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com

Speaking as a player on TAU, I wouldn't argue to be seeded ahead of
Blue Print, due to the head to head loss (though it was close, it
counts, and we lost) and a worse record against common opponents
(Bermuda). I do think we have a case to be ahead of MnM and Motorcade,
though.


SRT seeding grid:

http://scores.usaultimate.org/scores/#mixed/seeding/7511

For TAU vs MnM:

http://scores.usaultimate.org/scores/#mixed/compare6544to618 5

Better RRI, better record against common opponents


For TAU vs Motorcade:

http://scores.usaultimate.org/scores/#mixed/compare6544to118 80

Better RRI, similar record against common opponents, but notably TAU
is 3-1 vs Backfire while Motorcade is 0-2. Most other scores are
similar, and the only slight advantage Motorcade could argue is 1-0 vs
Blue Print (to TAU's 0-1) but both Blue Print games were close, and I
feel like the RRI and other matchups give TAU the edge.


Obviously I'm biased, and maybe I missed something, but I think you
can use these results to justify a higher seeding for TAU.

BJM
TAU #13
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