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AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76621] Thu, 02 September 2010 07:14 Go to next message
ulticritic
Messages: 8204
Registered: April 2009
Senior Member
Jonh Saunders just said this on espn........"Houston wide reciever,
patric edwards, filed a lawsuit for a broken leg he suffered in an
october 2008 game in marshal. edwards was hurt when he hit a meta
service cart that was set up in the back or the endzone. siut claimes
that the UNIVERSITY, the CONFERENCE and the GAME OFFICIAL failed to
maintain a safe field".

fyi, the dude was running full speed for a long bomb in the back
corner of the ez with cartS about 10 yards from there,
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76624 is a reply to message #76621] Thu, 02 September 2010 07:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Big D
Messages: 18
Registered: September 2009
Junior Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od_6DtwofUk
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76625 is a reply to message #76624] Thu, 02 September 2010 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ulticritic
Messages: 8204
Registered: April 2009
Senior Member
On Sep 2, 10:33 am, Big D <thesolemnwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od_6DtwofUk

can someone say....."risk management"
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76667 is a reply to message #76625] Thu, 02 September 2010 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 2, 10:37 am, ulticritic <ulticri...@live.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 10:33 am, Big D <thesolemnwo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od_6DtwofUk
>
> can someone say....."risk management"

I sure can. I have been saying that and I will continue to say that.
It is my hope that I will continue to say that as a member of the
Board. This is one of many issues I have been pushing for improvement
on and will continue to address.

Players are careless about this. Some organizers are careless about
this. The Worlds organizers were outrageously careless on this (face-
to-lightpole collision). I think that USA Ultimate should take an
active role in promoting safe playing conditions at tournaments.
Provide informational resources for tournament organizers. Adjust the
rules to reiterate responsibilities for keeping the sidelines clear.
Demand compliance with sensible field layout and safety requirements
as a condition of Sanctioning and aggressively enforce them. Remind
the players of the risks and encourage them to take steps to ensure
safety. I have already put in work in all of these areas, but I hope
to be successful on a larger scale at the Board level.

It is not enough for USA Ultimate to run extremely safe events like
the 2010 College Championships (dramatic improvement from 2009 UPA
College Championships). Knowingly allowing unsafe conditions to
exist at tournaments is just asking for trouble of some kind (even if
not litigation). I hope to get this addressed before any larger
problems arise.

Can you imagine a competitive tennis match with spectators and coolers
and tents and chairs set up in the doubles alley and behind the base
line because it's not in-bounds? And then creeping onto the court
when the ball is not immediately nearby?

-Colin
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76672 is a reply to message #76667] Thu, 02 September 2010 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
H
Messages: 249
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
I hate bikes. I saw a girl in PDX lay out for the disc and land on a bike, specifically, the big spoke wheel that's part of the front gears. HUGE gash, blood everywhere, end of season injury, because some doofus couldn't lock his bike up somewhere that wasn't right on the fields. I support clean sidelines, and I'm religious about people moving their bikes.

h
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76673 is a reply to message #76672] Thu, 02 September 2010 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T H
Messages: 1142
Registered: July 2009
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Senior Member
i hate spectators and babies.

i saw a grandmother and grandson get ran into as a player toed a line in summer league this year. the chairs were within arms reach of the sideline. . . and the grandmother got pissed at the player.
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76674 is a reply to message #76621] Thu, 02 September 2010 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Accumulated_Depreciat
Messages: 27
Registered: April 2010
Junior Member
that cart should not have been so close to the field

its is sickening to watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcqVloclNNI&feature=relat ed
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76677 is a reply to message #76621] Thu, 02 September 2010 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stephenghubbard
Messages: 208
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
I agree wholeheartedly, safe field setup needs to be a big part of the sanctioning process. If I am elected to the USAU BoD, this will be a big priority for me as well.

As much as organizers can do though, there is a very large onus on players. There just needs to be a cultural shift to where you JUST DONT PUT YOUR STUFF WITHIN 5 YARDS OF THE SIDELINE. If the sideline gap isn't big enough for this, you just put your bags and chairs and coolers somewhere else.

One idea for directors who are tight on space and must compromise somehow is instead of making all the sidelines 4 yards wide, make one 7 yards and the other 1 yard so it is clear people should put their stuff on the big side with enough clearance from the field.

Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76703 is a reply to message #76677] Fri, 03 September 2010 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 3, 12:45 am, stephenghubbard <stephenghubb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> One idea for directors who are tight on space and must
> compromise  somehow is instead of making all the sidelines 4
> yards wide, make one 7 yards and the other 1 yard so it is
> clear people should put their stuff on the big side with
> enough clearance from the field.

I agree on the cultural shift. My efforts to address this issue will
go beyond the reach of the sanctioning process, as I believe USA
Ultimate can have influence extending further than just its affiliated
events.

However, having 1 yard between adjacent fields is never acceptable. I
want to address this issue and this type of thinking before we end up
with a serious injury occurring from players on adjacent fields
colliding. "Tight on space" is a function of poor planning. It is
not a valid excuse for unsafe field setup.

-Colin

At-Large Board Candidate
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76895 is a reply to message #76621] Mon, 06 September 2010 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stephenghubbard
Messages: 208
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member

At Labor Day Championships in Santa Cruz this weekend (maybe the best field site in Ultimate), the TDs set up the field so that there was at least 10 yards between fields and most times more. Where there were 4 fields last year, now there were 3 full sized ones totally clear of any fixed hazards (rocks, light poles, asphalt). While the TD's forethought was praiseworthy, players and fans still put their bags, chairs, and tents within 2 yards of the sideline.
Even during the finals WHEN NO OTHER GAMES WERE GOING ON there were obstacles very close to the line. While I am sure those girls were excited to get so close to their heart-throb, the fact that Mac Taylor nearly clobbered them on a great full speed catch near the sideline is indicative of a big problem in the Ultimate community. We all need to respect sideline safety much more.
While change can and needs to happen from the top down (2010 USAU College Championships in Madison are a great example of progress) there needs to be a cultural shift a shift away from the sidelines. Your view of that great play is just as good if you are 3 yards further back. Be that guy on your team that stubbornly insists that everyone puts their bags further back, we all will be better for it.
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76902 is a reply to message #76895] Mon, 06 September 2010 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Agreed, 100% Stephen. Another example similar to yours was the Oregon women that got landed on by a player in the Stanford Invite finals (?). I know there's a picture of it, but I cannot locate it right now.

Other tournaments I've been to this year that did a great job on spacing (~10 yards between adjacent fields) are:

Chesapeake Open
ECC
Motown Throwdown

Gear/equipment lines tend to solve the equipment problem. Player lines in addition to gear lines often help the player issue.

When these lines have not been marked, players have not been responsible in leaving this space open. At Chesapeake, the fields were spaced such that a shade tent could fit comfortably between fields. In a classic "if you give a mouse a cookie" fashion, some teams jammed two shade tents side by side in that space, so each tent had a side within a yard or two of the sideline. Apparently, the obvious solution of placing their tents side-by-side in the other orientation escaped them (but they politely complied with a request to move the tents).

This is the kind of thing that players need to address, as Stephen said. TDs can help by painting gear lines and player lines, but players need to step up and make this happen. In addition, I believe USA Ultimate can play a greater role in this than simply putting on safe Championship events itself. Start by making sure every Sectionals and Regionals event is safe. Continue by providing resources for TDs, featuring articles (online or magazine) addressing the subject, etc.

-Colin


Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76909 is a reply to message #76703] Tue, 07 September 2010 05:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ulticritic
Messages: 8204
Registered: April 2009
Senior Member
On Sep 3, 12:06 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 3, 12:45 am, stephenghubbard <stephenghubb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > One idea for directors who are tight on space and must
> > compromise  somehow is instead of making all the sidelines 4
> > yards wide, make one 7 yards and the other 1 yard so it is
> > clear people should put their stuff on the big side with
> > enough clearance from the field.
>
> I agree on the cultural shift.  My efforts to address this issue will
> go beyond the reach of the sanctioning process, as I believe USA
> Ultimate can have influence extending further than just its affiliated
> events.
>
> However, having 1 yard between adjacent fields is never acceptable.  I
> want to address this issue and this type of thinking before we end up
> with a serious injury occurring from players on adjacent fields
> colliding.  "Tight on space" is a function of poor planning.  It is
> not a valid excuse for unsafe field setup.
>
> -Colin
>
> At-Large Board Candidate

safty schmaftey........WHERE DO YOU GUYS STAND ON THE GROSS
MISREPRESENTATION BY THE CURRENT BOARD ON THE WHOLE ISSUE CONCERNING
MORE EMPOWERED OBSERVERS?????

not just on more empowered observers but on the overt way that the
current boad ignores obvious data and trends in an effoort to preserve
theyre sacred (but dieing) sotg rule enforcement process.
Re: AND THERES YOUR LAWSUIT [message #76947 is a reply to message #76909] Tue, 07 September 2010 14:35 Go to previous message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
ulticritic wrote on Tue, 07 September 2010 08:17
On

safty schmaftey........WHERE DO YOU GUYS STAND ON THE GROSS
MISREPRESENTATION BY THE CURRENT BOARD ON THE WHOLE ISSUE CONCERNING
MORE EMPOWERED OBSERVERS?????

not just on more empowered observers but on the overt way that the
current boad ignores obvious data and trends in an effoort to preserve
theyre sacred (but dieing) sotg rule enforcement process.


What data? What trends? And what misrepresentation? Give me the specifics and I'll give you my take.

In general, I would like to improve data collection and provide more opportunities for the membership to reach the board with their input (through formal surveys and informal discussions). I think hiring professionals to run the surveying and data collection could go a long way toward getting the wants/needs of the membership heard. It's a shame to go to the trouble of collecting a bunch of responses, only to look at the final product and say, "What do responses to these questions even mean?" This will be high priority for me in the next strategic plan, as I think the most recent strategic plan could have been better in this regard.

As far as officiating goes, I am not locked into any single type of process. I'm looking forward to playing in a refereed exhibition game this weekend. I have also been very supportive of experimentation with observers making a variety of active calls (distinct from my views on when and how changes should be implemented for the Series). And I am open to experimentation with refs. That was my response on the UPA survey. That does not mean I think experimentation with referees is the best use of USA Ultimate resources.

In fact, I'd prefer to work to expand the observer program to serve a larger portion of the membership, in addition to making improvements to the observer system to dramatically improve fairness and flow of the game. Then once we've got a large pool of certified officials who can manage a game, we can talk about refs.

In terms of refs, my recollection is the original UPA survey had something like the following response options:

1) Referees are the only way!!!
2) I am open to experimentation with refs.
3) Refs would ruin the sport.

So by process of elimination, I think most people would choose 2. But that choice does not distinguish between people like me who tolerate ref experimentation, but prefer investment in the observer program (for immediate benefits), and people who actively want USA Ultimate to run experiments with refs. I will, at minimum, make sure the right questions get asked on any future surveys.

Anyway, your question at least hinted at these issues, which I am fully aware of and seeking to address. If you had something else you wanted me to respond to, let me know.

-Colin
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