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Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5836] Mon, 10 November 2008 16:21 Go to next message
andrewroca
Messages: 68
Registered: September 2008
Location: Central Florida
Member
5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
making fun of me.


-Rawwwwwr
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5838 is a reply to message #5836] Mon, 10 November 2008 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
faddy
Messages: 310
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
> 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> making fun of me.

they may be cool. they may have a bad business decision. they may not
have made a bad business decision. time will tell.

-never heard of them before. is their warranty as good as patagonia's?
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5840 is a reply to message #5836] Mon, 10 November 2008 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
> 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> making fun of me.

I agree. I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
major reflection of the clothing company. There are ample concrete
examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.

Colin
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5841 is a reply to message #5840] Mon, 10 November 2008 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
faddy
Messages: 310
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > making fun of me.
>
> I agree.  I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
> major reflection of the clothing company.  There are ample concrete
> examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
> Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
> team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
> for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.
>
> Colin

where is their shit (stuff) made?
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5847 is a reply to message #5840] Mon, 10 November 2008 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve
Messages: 9
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > making fun of me.
>
> I agree.  I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
> major reflection of the clothing company.  There are ample concrete
> examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
> Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
> team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
> for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.
>
> Colin


It's not that Five decided to sell to conference 1, it's that they are
SPONSORING. Huge difference.
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5851 is a reply to message #5840] Mon, 10 November 2008 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
john.a.crotty
Messages: 23
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
It's not about 5ultimate, it's about C1. It's about looking out for
your own interests. And these free jerseys WILL have an impact on the
interests of non C1 teams.

5ultimate must have determined that this move will help them sell more
jerseys in the long run. That's fine, nothing wrong with wanting to
make money. The point of the boycott, though, is to convince them
that they actually WON'T sell more jerseys.

Cultimate was trying to influence the ultimate landscape by buying the
jerseys. Non C1 teams are trying to influence the ultimate landscape
by not buying the jerseys. It's nothing personal.
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5852 is a reply to message #5847] Mon, 10 November 2008 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tal1286
Messages: 25
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
On Nov 10, 9:02 pm, Steve <corfree...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > > 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > > making fun of me.
>
> > I agree.  I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
> > major reflection of the clothing company.  There are ample concrete
> > examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
> > Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
> > team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
> > for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.
>
> > Colin
>
> It's not that Five decided to sell to conference 1, it's that they are
> SPONSORING.  Huge difference.

Exactly!

You wouldn't boycott Nike because Nike sells goods to members of the
al qaeda (They probably do, unintentionally). You would boycott Nike
if they sponsored al qaeda.

/Science

//Extreme Example
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5858 is a reply to message #5852] Mon, 10 November 2008 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
claytonanderson0
Messages: 7
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
Legit? Go ahead and ask FIVE for their Tax ID number....don't have
one.



On Nov 10, 8:31 pm, tal1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 10, 9:02 pm, Steve <corfree...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > > > 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > > > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > > > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > > > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > > > making fun of me.
>
> > > I agree.  I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
> > > major reflection of the clothing company.  There are ample concrete
> > > examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
> > > Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
> > > team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
> > > for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.
>
> > > Colin
>
> > It's not that Five decided to sell to conference 1, it's that they are
> > SPONSORING.  Huge difference.
>
> Exactly!
>
> You wouldn't boycott Nike because Nike sells goods to members of the
> al qaeda (They probably do, unintentionally).  You would boycott Nike
> if they sponsored al qaeda.
>
> /Science
>
> //Extreme Example- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5863 is a reply to message #5852] Mon, 10 November 2008 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 10, 9:31 pm, tal1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 10, 9:02 pm, Steve <corfree...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > > > 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > > > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > > > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > > > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > > > making fun of me.
>
> > > I agree. I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
> > > major reflection of the clothing company. There are ample concrete
> > > examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
> > > Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
> > > team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
> > > for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.
>
> > > Colin
>
> > It's not that Five decided to sell to conference 1, it's that they are
> > SPONSORING. Huge difference.
>
> Exactly!
>
> You wouldn't boycott Nike because Nike sells goods to members of the
> al qaeda (They probably do, unintentionally). You would boycott Nike
> if they sponsored al qaeda.
>
> /Science
>
> //Extreme Example

Define "sponsored."
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5864 is a reply to message #5847] Mon, 10 November 2008 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 10, 9:02 pm, Steve <corfree...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > > 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > > making fun of me.
>
> > I agree. I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
> > major reflection of the clothing company. There are ample concrete
> > examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
> > Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
> > team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
> > for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.
>
> > Colin
>
> It's not that Five decided to sell to conference 1, it's that they are
> SPONSORING. Huge difference.

What are the terms of the SPONSORSHIP arrangement? Is Five Ultimate
just giving away 25 sets of uniforms? Is Cultimate just buying 25
sets of uniforms from Five Ultimate and giving them to the C1 teams?
Is Five Ultimate giving Cultimate a bulk discount? What's the deal?
Is Five Ultimate making a profit on it? Got any specifics that allow
you to claim there is a huge difference? I don't. But we could
battle it out with our guesses, if you want.

My guess is that Cultimate is buying 25 sets of uniforms from Five
Ultimate at a discounted rate and giving them to the C1 teams. I
don't see too much to complain about there.
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #5879 is a reply to message #5851] Mon, 10 November 2008 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Smellsworth
Messages: 90
Registered: October 2008
Member
Since Gnarwhal isn't in C1, this seems a little personal, Crotty.

On Nov 10, 8:21 pm, john.a.cro...@gmail.com wrote:
> Cultimate was trying to influence the ultimate landscape by buying the
jerseys. Non C1 teams are trying to influence the ultimate landscape
by not buying the jerseys. It's nothing personal.
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #6002 is a reply to message #5864] Tue, 11 November 2008 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 10, 10:15 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 9:02 pm, Steve <corfree...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > > > 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > > > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > > > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > > > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > > > making fun of me.
>
> > > I agree. I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
> > > major reflection of the clothing company. There are ample concrete
> > > examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
> > > Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
> > > team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
> > > for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.
>
> > > Colin
>
> > It's not that Five decided to sell to conference 1, it's that they are
> > SPONSORING. Huge difference.
>
> What are the terms of the SPONSORSHIP arrangement? Is Five Ultimate
> just giving away 25 sets of uniforms? Is Cultimate just buying 25
> sets of uniforms from Five Ultimate and giving them to the C1 teams?
> Is Five Ultimate giving Cultimate a bulk discount? What's the deal?
> Is Five Ultimate making a profit on it? Got any specifics that allow
> you to claim there is a huge difference? I don't. But we could
> battle it out with our guesses, if you want.
>
> My guess is that Cultimate is buying 25 sets of uniforms from Five
> Ultimate at a discounted rate and giving them to the C1 teams. I
> don't see too much to complain about there.

Pleased to see a couple people have taken the time to award me with a
star for this post. Less pleased to see that none of the "Boycott
Five Ultimate" folks have stepped in to fill me in on the hard facts
that form the basis for their boycott.
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #6043 is a reply to message #5852] Tue, 11 November 2008 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 10, 9:31 pm, tal1...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 10, 9:02 pm, Steve <corfree...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > > > 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > > > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > > > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > > > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > > > making fun of me.
>
> > > I agree.  I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
> > > major reflection of the clothing company.  There are ample concrete
> > > examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
> > > Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
> > > team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
> > > for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.
>
> > > Colin
>
> > It's not that Five decided to sell to conference 1, it's that they are
> > SPONSORING.  Huge difference.
>
> Exactly!
>
> You wouldn't boycott Nike because Nike sells goods to members of the
> al qaeda (They probably do, unintentionally).  You would boycott Nike
> if they sponsored al qaeda.
>
> /Science
>
> //Extreme Example

Exactly? Alright, I've got a true, not extreme example of SPONSORSHIP
for you. A few years ago, Gaia SPONSORED the Michigan Men's college
team, providing uniforms at a discount, as well as discounts on other
Gaia merchandise. The SPONSORSHIP was based on Michigan's regular
appearance and chumpionship success at Nationals.

If you thought that the Michigan men's team was a cheating bunch of
assholes, would you boycott Gaia for SPONSORING them? What if Gaia
hadn't SPONSORED them, but had offered them an identical bulk discount
because each player had decided to buy multiple sets of uniforms?

I wouldn't boycott Gaia for that. Similarly, if I had hard feelings
against Cultimate, I wouldn't boycott Five Ultimate SPONSORING
Conference 1, without knowing that the SPONSORSHIP consisted of
something other than selling uniforms at a profit.

Still waiting for Steve or "tal1" to explain this HUGE difference
between SPONSORSHIP and selling uniforms.
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #6048 is a reply to message #5836] Tue, 11 November 2008 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gustavincognito
Messages: 2
Registered: November 2008
Junior Member
On Nov 10, 4:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
> 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> making fun of me.

Separate entities that share an office
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #6057 is a reply to message #5847] Tue, 11 November 2008 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
matty j
Messages: 250
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 10, 9:02 pm, Steve <corfree...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 10, 7:57 pm, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 10, 7:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > > 5Ultimate does not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > > making fun of me.
>
> > I agree.  I don't think who a clothing company sells clothing to is a
> > major reflection of the clothing company.  There are ample concrete
> > examples of positive things Five Ultimate has done for the sport.
> > Just as you would not boycott Five Ultimate for supplying jerseys to a
> > team you don't like, it would not make sense to boycott Five Ultimate
> > for supplying jerseys for C1, if you didn't like C1.
>
> > Colin
>
> It's not that Five decided to sell to conference 1, it's that they are
> SPONSORING.  Huge difference.

dude the UPA doesn't want sponsors for its national tournaments. where
else you gonna spend your sponsorship money for ultimate?
some summer league?
get real

MJ
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #6455 is a reply to message #5836] Fri, 14 November 2008 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gustavincognito
Messages: 2
Registered: November 2008
Junior Member
On Nov 10, 4:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
> 5Ultimatedoes not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> making fun of me.

An email from the Cultimate TDs about Sundodger, referring to
5Ultimate as a partner. More evidence that they have real vested
interests in each other:

All,

Thanks again for coming out to Sundodger 08. The rain and wind held
off for the most part, the hot chocolate and Top Ramen were in high
demand, and a record amount of teams this year were able to play a lot
of good ultimate.

Congrats to the finalists, Nirvana and the Whitman alum (and friends)
on the open side, and UW alum and University of Oregon on the women's
side. Congratulations also to the Red team from the party, which
somehow narrowly edged out the defending champion blue team in a tight
battle. Good luck defending your title next year Red.

We'd also like to thank FIVE Ultimate for their help in everything
this weekend. Setting up the tent/lounge on Friday, helping/
coordinating the party on Saturday, and of course all the sweet gear/
couches/music/etc... they brought that was clearly a hit. Their
presence is able to help us take Sundodger, and other tournament
Cultimate runs, to the next level of quality. To everyone that bought
something from them, thanks for supporting our partner, and be sure to
think about them when placing your team's jersey order this year.

Lastly, thanks to UW ultimate, because without them and their help in
every facet of running the tournament, Sundodger doesn't happen.

Thanks again for coming out, hope to see you all again next year.

Reid/Skip
Sundodger TD's

-------
Reid@cultimate.com
360-790-0596 (cell)
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #6469 is a reply to message #6455] Fri, 14 November 2008 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ilikedisc
Messages: 11
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
Did you really make an anonymous email just to post about this?
Re: Don't blame 5Ultimate [message #6578 is a reply to message #6455] Sun, 16 November 2008 08:48 Go to previous message
Pete
Messages: 166
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 14, 1:41 pm, gustavincogn...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Nov 10, 4:21 pm, andrewr...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > 5Ultimatedoes not need to be tied to Cultimate. They are two separate
> > entities. I enjoy their apparel. And the guys who run it are legit and
> > cool. There is no harm in maximizing profits. But what would i know, i
> > failed microeconomics. And i took astronomy 3 times! So no use in
> > making fun of me.
>
> An email from the Cultimate TDs about Sundodger, referring to
> 5Ultimate as a partner. More evidence that they have real vested
> interests in each other:
>
> All,
>
> Thanks again for coming out to Sundodger 08.  The rain and wind held
> off for the most part, the hot chocolate and Top Ramen were in high
> demand, and a record amount of teams this year were able to play a lot
> of good ultimate.
>
> Congrats to the finalists, Nirvana and the Whitman alum (and friends)
> on the open side, and UW alum and University of Oregon on the women's
> side.  Congratulations also to the Red team from the party, which
> somehow narrowly edged out the defending champion blue team in a tight
> battle.  Good luck defending your title next year Red.
>
> We'd also like to thank FIVE Ultimate for their help in everything
> this weekend.  Setting up the tent/lounge on Friday, helping/
> coordinating the party on Saturday, and of course all the sweet gear/
> couches/music/etc... they brought that was clearly a hit.  Their
> presence is able to help us take Sundodger, and other tournament
> Cultimate runs, to the next level of quality.  To everyone that bought
> something from them, thanks for supporting our partner, and be sure to
> think about them when placing your team's jersey order this year.
>
> Lastly, thanks to UW ultimate, because without them and their help in
> every facet of running the tournament, Sundodger doesn't happen.
>
> Thanks again for coming out, hope to see you all again next year.
>
> Reid/Skip
> Sundodger TD's
>
> -------
> R...@cultimate.com
> 360-790-0596 (cell)

Um, Five Ultimate did virtually the same thing at Potlatch this year,
and was referred to as a tournament sponsor by the Potlatch TDs. A
good TD always plugs whichever merchandise company provides the
merchandise for that tournament. I wouldn't use this as an example
anymore than what VC does at MLC this weekend.
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