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NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5605] Fri, 07 November 2008 17:00 Go to next message
hudsonwallace
Messages: 18
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
College Captains and Players:

We are happy to introduce the National Collegiate Ultimate
Association, an organization designed for and dedicated to the
development and promotion of Collegiate Ultimate.

The National Collegiate Ultimate Association (NCUA) has been
established to promote and govern fair, safe, equitable and
sportsmanlike Intercollegiate Ultimate competition, to advocate for
our member institutions at both the college and community level, and
to ensure a quality experience for each member athlete.

The foundation of the NCUA is to provide more opportunities for teams
to play games of consequence against teams of parity. In all
Divisions, NCUA teams play a minimum of three tournaments (with
opportunities scheduled from January to May) to directly determine the
teams that participate in the National Championship Tournament. Teams
qualify for the National Championship in their Division based on
National Rankings that reflect the merits of each team's success over
the course of their season. In this way, the NCUA automatically
introduces meaning to the entire season of a team. Expanding the
National Championship tournament also vastly increases the meaning of
the season for teams beyond the elite programs.

Additionally, the NCUA recognizes that, because of the turnover in
rosters from year to year, the barrier between any Divisions must
always remain permeable, for any given year's National Championship
tournament, and also from season to season. Thus, Division II teams
must always be able to play into the Division I Championship
tournament, and Division I and II teams must always be able to play
into the Conference 1 Championship tournament.

Please visit the website at http://www.collegiateultimate.com

We thank everyone for their patience as we sat down for talks with the
UPA regarding a potential merger of efforts for the 2009 season. Two
days after the information shared with captains from Conference 1
teams had appeared on this forum, Cultimate's Matthew 'Skip' Sewell
and Cyle Van Auken participated in a conference call with UPA
representatives Mike Payne, Peri Kurshan, Sandie Hammerly, and Will
Deaver, and respectfully agreed to suspend releasing further
information, and to hold meetings in Sarasota to discuss collaboration
for the upcoming season and beyond.

We were happy to meet with the UPA and player representatives over the
weekend of the Club Championships and on Monday morning. At the heart
of all of the meetings was a desire to give the best possible
experience to college players, and we remain committed to providing
the opportunities for 2009 and beyond.

It was encouraging that principally the UPA and Cultimate agree on the
need for change in the competitive structure of College Ultimate.
There are many areas in which the NCUA aligns with the initiatives of
the UPA's Strategic Plan. Because of the many areas where we have
found that this plan could meet the needs of the College Division, we
will be participating in the UPA's task force that will discuss the
format of the 2010 season.


With so many of the issues of the College Division addressed directly
by the NCUA, and Cultimate in position to manage the Events in 2009
that form the infrastructure for competition, another season without
change is a disservice to every team.

College students have five years of eligibility, but the window for
players is often only one or two of those years. The current National
Championship tournament has been limited to an exclusive group of
programs, and over half of teams who enter the Series are eliminated
in its first weekend. In the interest of all players, we feel firmly
that wholesale changes must occur for the 2009 season.

In the end, what is important is providing the opportunities for the
best and most meaningful season for the college teams competing, and
not the interests of Cultimate or the UPA. The UPA is undertaking its
Ultimate Revolution, and we applaud those efforts and look forward to
participating in those discussions over the next year. The NCUA, along
with Cultimate, is positioned to provide solutions for the 2009 season
and beyond. We passionately pursued this comprehensive system for
college ultimate, with specific initiatives that address major issues
in each Division.

We look forward to talking with you all over the course of the next
month, and offering all teams better and more meaningful
opportunities. At its core, Cultimate is a fan of college ultimate,
and will continue to provide the opportunities that make the college
season so special.

Matt "Skip" Sewell

NCUA Board of Advisors
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5608 is a reply to message #5605] Fri, 07 November 2008 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
boz.joey
Messages: 11
Registered: November 2008
Junior Member
I would hope you've looked over the various threads here having to do
with C1 and the NCUA. Maybe post a response to some of the very valid
concerns that have been raised.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5609 is a reply to message #5605] Fri, 07 November 2008 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
Messages: 152
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Canadian teams... welcomed or shunned?

Of course, if you're afraid of the BC teams, your answer will be clear.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5610 is a reply to message #5608] Fri, 07 November 2008 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jack
Messages: 46
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Nov 7, 7:18 pm, boz.j...@gmail.com wrote:
> I would hope you've looked over the various threads here having to do
> with C1 and the NCUA.  Maybe post a response to some of the very valid
> concerns that have been raised.

Is that your way of saying you haven't looked at the NCUA website yet
to see if these concerns are addressed there?
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5611 is a reply to message #5610] Fri, 07 November 2008 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KK26
Messages: 95
Registered: October 2008
Member
Whole thing looks incredible.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5612 is a reply to message #5610] Fri, 07 November 2008 17:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rich Johnston
Messages: 46
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Nov 7, 8:50 pm, Jack <Jac...@ku.edu> wrote:
> On Nov 7, 7:18 pm, boz.j...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I would hope you've looked over the various threads here having to do
> > with C1 and the NCUA.  Maybe post a response to some of the very valid
> > concerns that have been raised.
>
> Is that your way of saying you haven't looked at the NCUA website yet
> to see if these concerns are addressed there?

Discounting everything else for the moment, this blows for any team
from NYC north. Philly is the NE-most tournament they're offering. A
regular season event in Boston would probably help a lot.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5614 is a reply to message #5611] Fri, 07 November 2008 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reggiehollywood
Messages: 7
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
There are many many potential pitfalls.

What you guys are trying to do looks cool, and is much more fleshed
out than before. Is the UPA collaborating? Are there exclusivity
issues between your series?

I think perhaps the biggest pitfall though has to do with the
development of college ultimate as a whole. One cool part about
ultimate in college is watching the geographic diversity at
nationals.
I'm not advocating in either direction of auto bids or strength bids,
I'm merely pointing out a few things.

The NCAA has autobids. Each conference winner gets a shot at the field
of 64. Likewise, the bowl games in football have conference
affiliations. Now, for the sake of this scenario, lets say the top
teams in the country are as follows.
1. Cal
2. Whitman
3. Western Washington
4. Stanford
5. UCLA
6. Gonzaga

Maybe all the other good teams are from the south. Also, lets say no
Metro East team makes it. Does this then start a trend in disc that
kills the development of a region???

NCAA basketball has it's autobids from winning the conference tourney.
Football has it conference affiliations for bowls.
My analogy might not be perfect. However, if NCUA can use the same
analogy between collegiate sports, please do not attack mine.

I also worry that teams not close enough to 3 events will perhaps
struggle. It is geographically biased. The teams farthest away from
big events and a multitude of them will struggle. A team should still
have to attend 3 tournaments. That could get ridiculous, and say
goodbye to developing from the ground up. Look at a team like
Minnesota, who missed out on Nationals bc they have to go through
Carleton and Wisco. Does this system help them? Maybe. It was either
last year or two years ago that they didn't play many tourneys and
came out and rocked it. So they could still be the strongest team and
not have the means to show it.

Maybe a good idea would be to give an autobid to every tournament
champion, while keeping your format. That would be pretty righteous.

Sorry for the long post. I just feel strongly about where the future
of this sport is going. Some of this might have been said while i was
writing it, because I think this topic is about to blow up with
chatter.

I'm not pro or anti NCUA, just giving my observations.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5616 is a reply to message #5611] Fri, 07 November 2008 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scoreforgonzo
Messages: 9
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Nov 7, 8:57 pm, KK26 <kell...@ku.edu> wrote:
> Whole thing looks incredible.

agreed on the tough schedule for northeast teams...

also a somewhat technical question... which the FAQs attempted to
answer but I'm still unclear on...

D1 vs D2 status for this year is simply whether your school is D1 in
football or not? It says D2 teams can play up to D1 but can they just
start there too if they so choose?... If not doesn't this totally
screw some ncaa-D3 schools with good ultimate teams... eg. Whitman and/
or Tufts (currently ranked 20th and 22nd on upa (i don't want to get
into a debate about the validity of these rankings but i think we can
agree that if you're up there on upa then you're at least a
respectable team)) who would be relegated to D2... or if you don't buy
that argument.. had CUT not been invited to C1 for some reason... or
if they turned it down... would they be relegated to D2 as well?

Also with all this.... why still keep C1 separate?
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5617 is a reply to message #5608] Fri, 07 November 2008 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Krishna
Messages: 98
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Nov 7, 5:18 pm, boz.j...@gmail.com wrote:
> I would hope you've looked over the various threads here having to do
> with C1 and the NCUA.  Maybe post a response to some of the very valid
> concerns that have been raised.

That website is pretty sweet.

Also some concerns have been addressed. Spend five minutes on the
website.

For example from the Men's Qualification System:
'Conference 1 teams can play outside Conference 1 tournaments in
Sanctioned Events to establish a National Ranking.'

Unfortunately the eligibility rules make no sense:

'For a player to be eligible for NCUA competition, he/she must have
played no more than four years of ultimate. A year of ultimate is
defined by playing for, or appearing on the roster for, any college or
club team (UPA) during the year.'

Anyone in high school who plays club loses a year of eligibility.
Pretty bad, especially when you consider that some high schools put
together teams to play in the club series.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5618 is a reply to message #5605] Fri, 07 November 2008 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scoop
Messages: 76
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Nov 7, 8:00 pm, hudsonwall...@gmail.com wrote:
> College Captains and Players:

8 o'clock on a friday night... you guys worked in the Bush
administration?

You're still full of horseshit, but i give you some credit for
learning a little bit of strategy on when to release humiliating news.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5619 is a reply to message #5605] Fri, 07 November 2008 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
davebk
Messages: 15
Registered: November 2008
Junior Member
How did you manage to get Barack Obama's people to design the
website???

I'd change that "see the schedule" button back to the original "please
donate" though.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5621 is a reply to message #5612] Fri, 07 November 2008 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mvuong
Messages: 709
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
>
> Discounting everything else for the moment, this blows for any team
> from NYC north.  Philly is the NE-most tournament they're offering.  A
> regular season event in Boston would probably help a lot.

As much as this is not a good thing for those in the NE, there are
similar regions of the country that are being shafted as well. Parts
of the South and Southwest already have to drive at least 6 hrs+ to
get to tournaments. I would be for a large increase in tournaments to
help out geography.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5626 is a reply to message #5605] Fri, 07 November 2008 21:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clarkgle
Messages: 2
Registered: November 2008
Junior Member
On Nov 7, 7:00 pm, hudsonwall...@gmail.com wrote:
> College Captains and Players:
>
> We are happy to introduce the National Collegiate Ultimate
> Association, an organization designed for and dedicated to the
> development and promotion of Collegiate Ultimate.
>
> The National Collegiate Ultimate Association (NCUA) has been
> established to promote and govern fair, safe, equitable and
> sportsmanlike Intercollegiate Ultimate competition, to advocate for
> our member institutions at both the college and community level, and
> to ensure a quality experience for each member athlete.
>
> The foundation of the NCUA is to provide more opportunities for teams
> to play games of consequence against teams of parity. In all
> Divisions, NCUA teams play a minimum of three tournaments (with
> opportunities scheduled from January to May) to directly determine the
> teams that participate in the National Championship Tournament. Teams
> qualify for the National Championship in their Division based on
> National Rankings that reflect the merits of each team's success over
> the course of their season. In this way, the NCUA automatically
> introduces meaning to the entire season of a team. Expanding the
> National Championship tournament also vastly increases the meaning of
> the season for teams beyond the elite programs.
>
> Additionally, the NCUA recognizes that, because of the turnover in
> rosters from year to year, the barrier between any Divisions must
> always remain permeable, for any given year's National Championship
> tournament, and also from season to season. Thus, Division II teams
> must always be able to play into the Division I Championship
> tournament, and Division I and II teams must always be able to play
> into the Conference 1 Championship tournament.
>
> Please visit the website athttp://www.collegiateultimate.com
>
> We thank everyone for their patience as we sat down for talks with the
> UPA regarding a potential merger of efforts for the 2009 season. Two
> days after the information shared with captains from Conference 1
> teams had appeared on this forum, Cultimate's Matthew 'Skip' Sewell
> and Cyle Van Auken participated in a conference call with UPA
> representatives Mike Payne, Peri Kurshan, Sandie Hammerly, and Will
> Deaver, and respectfully agreed to suspend releasing further
> information, and to hold meetings in Sarasota to discuss collaboration
> for the upcoming season and beyond.
>
> We were happy to meet with the UPA and player representatives over the
> weekend of the Club Championships and on Monday morning. At the heart
> of all of the meetings was a desire to give the best possible
> experience to college players, and we remain committed to providing
> the opportunities for 2009 and beyond.
>
> It was encouraging that principally the UPA and Cultimate agree on the
> need for change in the competitive structure of College Ultimate.
> There are many areas in which the NCUA aligns with the initiatives of
> the UPA's Strategic Plan. Because of the many areas where we have
> found that this plan could meet the needs of the College Division, we
> will be participating in the UPA's task force that will discuss the
> format of the 2010 season.
>
> With so many of the issues of the College Division addressed directly
> by the NCUA, and Cultimate in position to manage the Events in 2009
> that form the infrastructure for competition, another season without
> change is a disservice to every team.
>
> College students have five years of eligibility, but the window for
> players is often only one or two of those years. The current National
> Championship tournament has been limited to an exclusive group of
> programs, and over half of teams who enter the Series are eliminated
> in its first weekend. In the interest of all players, we feel firmly
> that wholesale changes must occur for the 2009 season.
>
> In the end, what is important is providing the opportunities for the
> best and most meaningful season for the college teams competing, and
> not the interests of Cultimate or the UPA. The UPA is undertaking its
> Ultimate Revolution, and we applaud those efforts and look forward to
> participating in those discussions over the next year. The NCUA, along
> with Cultimate, is positioned to provide solutions for the 2009 season
> and beyond. We passionately pursued this comprehensive system for
> college ultimate, with specific initiatives that address major issues
> in each Division.
>
> We look forward to talking with you all over the course of the next
> month, and offering all teams better and more meaningful
> opportunities. At its core, Cultimate is a fan of college ultimate,
> and will continue to provide the opportunities that make the college
> season so special.
>
> Matt "Skip" Sewell
>
> NCUA Board of Advisors

What rules are you going to use? the 11th edition?, there is no
mention of Rules on the website..

Are there refs?


Also do Conference 1 teams play for the NCUA Division 1 championship
or for the conference 1 championship? It looks like the there are
multiple championships from the FAQ's (Other than DII and DI women's)

Also it looks like 10 top ten teams in the rankings that don't win
their division can play in the 10 play in games with the conference 1
teams, or can they only play in the 64 team tournament?

If Conference 1 teams play for the NCUA DI championship do others
qualify in some manner other than the 64 team tournament, that
apparently Conference 1 teams can play in as well?

Also how do we get a registrar certified roster?

Is NCUA a non-profit? Is Conference 1? They mention they will post
their budget, but will C1?

And does NCUA pay for Conference 1 teams to travel/ for jerseys/ for
appearance fees, If yes why?

The NCUA seems like a better system overall, Why even have C1? it is
to seperate the elite? Or to set up a professional college league

Can you play in UPA and NCUA? If no Why?

Is there future plans to integrate with the UPA? In skip's post he
mentioned that cultimate would be on UPA's reform board for the 2010
series if the collobarate will NCUA die? Will C1?

I will have more questions i am sure, but i will try to address these
and others specifically to cultimate

Glenn
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5632 is a reply to message #5605] Fri, 07 November 2008 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eddiegelfen
Messages: 43
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Nov 7, 8:00 pm, hudsonwall...@gmail.com wrote:
> College Captains and Players:
>
> We are happy to introduce the National Collegiate Ultimate
> Association, an organization designed for and dedicated to the
> development and promotion of Collegiate Ultimate.
>
> The National Collegiate Ultimate Association (NCUA) has been
> established to promote and govern fair, safe, equitable and
> sportsmanlike Intercollegiate Ultimate competition, to advocate for
> our member institutions at both the college and community level, and
> to ensure a quality experience for each member athlete.
>
> The foundation of the NCUA is to provide more opportunities for teams
> to play games of consequence against teams of parity. In all
> Divisions, NCUA teams play a minimum of three tournaments (with
> opportunities scheduled from January to May) to directly determine the
> teams that participate in the National Championship Tournament. Teams
> qualify for the National Championship in their Division based on
> National Rankings that reflect the merits of each team's success over
> the course of their season. In this way, the NCUA automatically
> introduces meaning to the entire season of a team. Expanding the
> National Championship tournament also vastly increases the meaning of
> the season for teams beyond the elite programs.
>
> Additionally, the NCUA recognizes that, because of the turnover in
> rosters from year to year, the barrier between any Divisions must
> always remain permeable, for any given year's National Championship
> tournament, and also from season to season. Thus, Division II teams
> must always be able to play into the Division I Championship
> tournament, and Division I and II teams must always be able to play
> into the Conference 1 Championship tournament.
>
> Please visit the website athttp://www.collegiateultimate.com
>
> We thank everyone for their patience as we sat down for talks with the
> UPA regarding a potential merger of efforts for the 2009 season. Two
> days after the information shared with captains from Conference 1
> teams had appeared on this forum, Cultimate's Matthew 'Skip' Sewell
> and Cyle Van Auken participated in a conference call with UPA
> representatives Mike Payne, Peri Kurshan, Sandie Hammerly, and Will
> Deaver, and respectfully agreed to suspend releasing further
> information, and to hold meetings in Sarasota to discuss collaboration
> for the upcoming season and beyond.
>
> We were happy to meet with the UPA and player representatives over the
> weekend of the Club Championships and on Monday morning. At the heart
> of all of the meetings was a desire to give the best possible
> experience to college players, and we remain committed to providing
> the opportunities for 2009 and beyond.
>
> It was encouraging that principally the UPA and Cultimate agree on the
> need for change in the competitive structure of College Ultimate.
> There are many areas in which the NCUA aligns with the initiatives of
> the UPA's Strategic Plan. Because of the many areas where we have
> found that this plan could meet the needs of the College Division, we
> will be participating in the UPA's task force that will discuss the
> format of the 2010 season.
>
> With so many of the issues of the College Division addressed directly
> by the NCUA, and Cultimate in position to manage the Events in 2009
> that form the infrastructure for competition, another season without
> change is a disservice to every team.
>
> College students have five years of eligibility, but the window for
> players is often only one or two of those years. The current National
> Championship tournament has been limited to an exclusive group of
> programs, and over half of teams who enter the Series are eliminated
> in its first weekend. In the interest of all players, we feel firmly
> that wholesale changes must occur for the 2009 season.
>
> In the end, what is important is providing the opportunities for the
> best and most meaningful season for the college teams competing, and
> not the interests of Cultimate or the UPA. The UPA is undertaking its
> Ultimate Revolution, and we applaud those efforts and look forward to
> participating in those discussions over the next year. The NCUA, along
> with Cultimate, is positioned to provide solutions for the 2009 season
> and beyond. We passionately pursued this comprehensive system for
> college ultimate, with specific initiatives that address major issues
> in each Division.
>
> We look forward to talking with you all over the course of the next
> month, and offering all teams better and more meaningful
> opportunities. At its core, Cultimate is a fan of college ultimate,
> and will continue to provide the opportunities that make the college
> season so special.
>
> Matt "Skip" Sewell
>
> NCUA Board of Advisors

1) So NCUA might be a non-profit, if your 501(c)(3) application is
accepted. But the processing time on those is close to a year. When
was the application submitted? Is there any chance it'll be approved
before the 2009 College Season is over? If not, do we have any
assurance the NCUA will be operated as a non-profit, as opposed to
merely as a branch of Cultimate?

2) Bylaws and Constitution. Are we supposed to sign on before we see
this? So you might be a non-profit and you might have bylaws and a
constitution agreeable to us, but we should give you money before we
know?

3) Tulsa, OK. The UPA got duped due to delegation and insufficient
oversight of a rogue RC. You all are getting duped flat out.

4) Eligibility. I have a lot of friends that are not college
eligible. But they're going to play in C1 and NCUA events anyway. I
don't know what schools they'll play for, as they are pretty well
spread across the country. How are you going to stop them? They
figure it's worth the risk because even if you catch them and kick
them out, they can just participate in the UPA series.

5) How is this different than the 2008 College Season, except that my
team of 24 will be paying nearly twice as much per tournament and
maybe will have less flexibility in terms of travel?

6) Wouldn't my team get a better value playing in tournaments like
Mardi Gras, Queen City Tune Up, President's Day, Terminus, Hellfish
Bonanza, Mudbowl, Southerns, Santa Barbara Invite, etc?

7) Isn't it unfair for large teams to pay twice as much as small teams
when the marginal cost of the extra players is fairly small?

8) Can you post a simple, step-by-step explanation of the qualifying
systems for the NCUA and C1 Championships? Sounds fairly complicated
and I don't want to feel like you're pulling the wool over my eyes.

9) Given that you don't even have your paperwork in order, isn't it a
bit premature to be launching this supposedly grand plan and making
all these promises? Are you really in position to effectively and
successfully implement all these major changes for the 2009 series?
Or won't they be all that major?
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5633 is a reply to message #5605] Fri, 07 November 2008 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eddiegelfen
Messages: 43
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Nov 7, 8:00 pm, hudsonwall...@gmail.com wrote:
> College Captains and Players:
>
> We are happy to introduce the National Collegiate Ultimate
> Association, an organization designed for and dedicated to the
> development and promotion of Collegiate Ultimate.
>
> The National Collegiate Ultimate Association (NCUA) has been
> established to promote and govern fair, safe, equitable and
> sportsmanlike Intercollegiate Ultimate competition, to advocate for
> our member institutions at both the college and community level, and
> to ensure a quality experience for each member athlete.
>
> The foundation of the NCUA is to provide more opportunities for teams
> to play games of consequence against teams of parity. In all
> Divisions, NCUA teams play a minimum of three tournaments (with
> opportunities scheduled from January to May) to directly determine the
> teams that participate in the National Championship Tournament. Teams
> qualify for the National Championship in their Division based on
> National Rankings that reflect the merits of each team's success over
> the course of their season. In this way, the NCUA automatically
> introduces meaning to the entire season of a team. Expanding the
> National Championship tournament also vastly increases the meaning of
> the season for teams beyond the elite programs.
>
> Additionally, the NCUA recognizes that, because of the turnover in
> rosters from year to year, the barrier between any Divisions must
> always remain permeable, for any given year's National Championship
> tournament, and also from season to season. Thus, Division II teams
> must always be able to play into the Division I Championship
> tournament, and Division I and II teams must always be able to play
> into the Conference 1 Championship tournament.
>
> Please visit the website athttp://www.collegiateultimate.com
>
> We thank everyone for their patience as we sat down for talks with the
> UPA regarding a potential merger of efforts for the 2009 season. Two
> days after the information shared with captains from Conference 1
> teams had appeared on this forum, Cultimate's Matthew 'Skip' Sewell
> and Cyle Van Auken participated in a conference call with UPA
> representatives Mike Payne, Peri Kurshan, Sandie Hammerly, and Will
> Deaver, and respectfully agreed to suspend releasing further
> information, and to hold meetings in Sarasota to discuss collaboration
> for the upcoming season and beyond.
>
> We were happy to meet with the UPA and player representatives over the
> weekend of the Club Championships and on Monday morning. At the heart
> of all of the meetings was a desire to give the best possible
> experience to college players, and we remain committed to providing
> the opportunities for 2009 and beyond.
>
> It was encouraging that principally the UPA and Cultimate agree on the
> need for change in the competitive structure of College Ultimate.
> There are many areas in which the NCUA aligns with the initiatives of
> the UPA's Strategic Plan. Because of the many areas where we have
> found that this plan could meet the needs of the College Division, we
> will be participating in the UPA's task force that will discuss the
> format of the 2010 season.
>
> With so many of the issues of the College Division addressed directly
> by the NCUA, and Cultimate in position to manage the Events in 2009
> that form the infrastructure for competition, another season without
> change is a disservice to every team.
>
> College students have five years of eligibility, but the window for
> players is often only one or two of those years. The current National
> Championship tournament has been limited to an exclusive group of
> programs, and over half of teams who enter the Series are eliminated
> in its first weekend. In the interest of all players, we feel firmly
> that wholesale changes must occur for the 2009 season.
>
> In the end, what is important is providing the opportunities for the
> best and most meaningful season for the college teams competing, and
> not the interests of Cultimate or the UPA. The UPA is undertaking its
> Ultimate Revolution, and we applaud those efforts and look forward to
> participating in those discussions over the next year. The NCUA, along
> with Cultimate, is positioned to provide solutions for the 2009 season
> and beyond. We passionately pursued this comprehensive system for
> college ultimate, with specific initiatives that address major issues
> in each Division.
>
> We look forward to talking with you all over the course of the next
> month, and offering all teams better and more meaningful
> opportunities. At its core, Cultimate is a fan of college ultimate,
> and will continue to provide the opportunities that make the college
> season so special.
>
> Matt "Skip" Sewell
>
> NCUA Board of Advisors

Interesting. So there was a lot of backlash from non-top-25 teams
against having to pay higher tournament fees to support the C1
sponsorships. And shame on Cultimate for trying to make that happen.

Now, all of a sudden, we have the NCUA with its lofty goals, supposed
intentions of being a non-profit, serving the players, etc. And the
NCUA is a separate entity from Cultimate, so we shouldn't have any
animosity towards the NCUA and we should trust the NCUA. Now that we
trust the NCUA, what is the NCUA telling us all to do? Pay a mere
$125/player for a season of ultimate. But how does that break down?
Pay $25/player to the NCUA (comparable to UPA dues). And then pay the
remaining $100 per player to Cultimate to attend the three tournaments
that NCUA is requiring.

This is just a big smokescreen. Cultimate flubbed their release of C1
and it looked like they wouldn't be able to squeeze money out of the
non-C1 teams. So what do they do? Create a new entity, claiming to
be separate from Cultimate, and use that supposedly uninterested
entity to urge the players to give their money to Cultimate to support
the C1 teams.

Come on. The various teams just might be that stupid, but it isn't
proper for the NCUA (Cultimate dudes plus purchased/duped legitimate
"advisors") as the governing "non-profit" body to be urging its
members to funnel money into the pockets of two of its "Advisors/
directors." This whole thing still just reeks "SCAM! SCAM! SCAM!"
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5634 is a reply to message #5617] Fri, 07 November 2008 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jay Schulkin
Messages: 48
Registered: September 2008
Member
> Also some concerns have been addressed. Spend five minutes on the
> website.
>
> For example from the Men's Qualification System:
> 'Conference 1 teams can play outside Conference 1 tournaments in
> Sanctioned Events to establish a National Ranking.'

So they can play in other Cultimate tournaments, but not in regular
tournaments like Pres Day, SB Invite, etc.
Furthermore, I still don't understand why they would go with such a
fuckin ominous name for an organization that is shady to begin with.
And we know they don't have any qualms with re-branding... (NCUS, C1,
NCUA)
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5636 is a reply to message #5605] Fri, 07 November 2008 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fish
Messages: 46
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Nov 7, 5:00 pm, hudsonwall...@gmail.com wrote:
> College Captains and Players:
>
> We are happy to introduce the National Collegiate Ultimate
> Association, an organization designed for and dedicated to the
> development and promotion of Collegiate Ultimate.
>
> The National Collegiate Ultimate Association (NCUA) has been
> established to promote and govern fair, safe, equitable and
> sportsmanlike Intercollegiate Ultimate competition, to advocate for
> our member institutions at both the college and community level, and
> to ensure a quality experience for each member athlete.
>
> The foundation of the NCUA is to provide more opportunities for teams
> to play games of consequence against teams of parity. In all
> Divisions, NCUA teams play a minimum of three tournaments (with
> opportunities scheduled from January to May) to directly determine the
> teams that participate in the National Championship Tournament. Teams
> qualify for the National Championship in their Division based on
> National Rankings that reflect the merits of each team's success over
> the course of their season. In this way, the NCUA automatically
> introduces meaning to the entire season of a team. Expanding the
> National Championship tournament also vastly increases the meaning of
> the season for teams beyond the elite programs.
>
> Additionally, the NCUA recognizes that, because of the turnover in
> rosters from year to year, the barrier between any Divisions must
> always remain permeable, for any given year's National Championship
> tournament, and also from season to season. Thus, Division II teams
> must always be able to play into the Division I Championship
> tournament, and Division I and II teams must always be able to play
> into the Conference 1 Championship tournament.
>
> Please visit the website athttp://www.collegiateultimate.com
>
> We thank everyone for their patience as we sat down for talks with the
> UPA regarding a potential merger of efforts for the 2009 season. Two
> days after the information shared with captains from Conference 1
> teams had appeared on this forum, Cultimate's Matthew 'Skip' Sewell
> and Cyle Van Auken participated in a conference call with UPA
> representatives Mike Payne, Peri Kurshan, Sandie Hammerly, and Will
> Deaver, and respectfully agreed to suspend releasing further
> information, and to hold meetings in Sarasota to discuss collaboration
> for the upcoming season and beyond.
>
> We were happy to meet with the UPA and player representatives over the
> weekend of the Club Championships and on Monday morning. At the heart
> of all of the meetings was a desire to give the best possible
> experience to college players, and we remain committed to providing
> the opportunities for 2009 and beyond.
>
> It was encouraging that principally the UPA and Cultimate agree on the
> need for change in the competitive structure of College Ultimate.
> There are many areas in which the NCUA aligns with the initiatives of
> the UPA's Strategic Plan. Because of the many areas where we have
> found that this plan could meet the needs of the College Division, we
> will be participating in the UPA's task force that will discuss the
> format of the 2010 season.
>
> With so many of the issues of the College Division addressed directly
> by the NCUA, and Cultimate in position to manage the Events in 2009
> that form the infrastructure for competition, another season without
> change is a disservice to every team.
>
> College students have five years of eligibility, but the window for
> players is often only one or two of those years. The current National
> Championship tournament has been limited to an exclusive group of
> programs, and over half of teams who enter the Series are eliminated
> in its first weekend. In the interest of all players, we feel firmly
> that wholesale changes must occur for the 2009 season.
>
> In the end, what is important is providing the opportunities for the
> best and most meaningful season for the college teams competing, and
> not the interests of Cultimate or the UPA. The UPA is undertaking its
> Ultimate Revolution, and we applaud those efforts and look forward to
> participating in those discussions over the next year. The NCUA, along
> with Cultimate, is positioned to provide solutions for the 2009 season
> and beyond. We passionately pursued this comprehensive system for
> college ultimate, with specific initiatives that address major issues
> in each Division.
>
> We look forward to talking with you all over the course of the next
> month, and offering all teams better and more meaningful
> opportunities. At its core, Cultimate is a fan of college ultimate,
> and will continue to provide the opportunities that make the college
> season so special.
>
> Matt "Skip" Sewell
>
> NCUA Board of Advisors

the nba would like their ad campaign back.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5637 is a reply to message #5636] Sat, 08 November 2008 01:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
drpangloss31415
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
At least they're not using the big picture of Kershner to directly
promote C1...
Also, I believe it says the eligibility clock starts after high school
graduation, so high schoolers playing club should be fine. I just
wonder how they're going to know when someone started appearing on UPA
rosters if the UPA decides not to let them use their database.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5638 is a reply to message #5633] Sat, 08 November 2008 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
who.i.am.on.the.edges
Messages: 1
Registered: November 2008
Junior Member
What a shit storm.

Boycotts. Toad’s “support.” Cyle VanAuken. Skip/Deaver match-up.
Snubbing. Sexism. False analogies....

How much do we really know? Peeling back layers of RSD spam, we find
the original October 15 post with a link to a jpeg (http://
cultimate.com/conference1/) and a list of questions.
3...2...1....Lift off.

The original thread contains the following statements (emphasis, my
own):
"I am __assuming__ that the tournaments will continue, with Conference
1 conference games, and then the rest of the riffraff playing the
regular tournaments."
"__I do not believe__ that Non-C1 teams will be allowed to play at
these tournaments. CI teams only play at C1 tournaments, and only C1
teams play at C1 tournaments."
"They have only their own interests in mind. And they don't give a
d*mn about the hundreds of non-Conference1 colleges out there, and the
thousands of students on those teams."

Hector’s blog from the 15th received a number of anonymous comments
including these two:
“Skip would be a fool to underserve the non-C1 teams, and he's no
fool. I assume we will find out about the non-C1 teams' options and
tourneys soon.”
“__The more I hear about this process,__ the more I am convinced that
Skip's plan is:
1) Get the top teams on board, by hook, crook, and, basically, bribery
(aka "sponsorship and appearance fees"). (Skip almost certainly
intends to lose money in year one.)
2) Assuming step 1 works, play brinksmanship with the UPA ("we've got
the teams on board") and hope the admin caves in and offers rostering
assistance. If the UPA calls their bluff, then they will have an
awfully hard time making C1 work.
3) In the near term, make his profits by amping up the fees on the non-
C1 events. In the long term, once CUltimate's control is firm, start
charging the C1 teams. Presto: Skip is now running the college series
for a profit.”

Assumptions, rumors, hearsay.

YFC1997 said, “good work spreading more misinformation at a time when
it seems that practically no one has the full story.”

Exactly.

“Maybe between the time when C1 leaked and the meeting of the minds in
Florida last week everyone agreed to stop talking publicly about
anything (to Cultimate's detriment clearly). And maybe Cultimate
honored that request in good faith and good will to the UPA. Who
knows? Who's doing who the favor here?” – Akira

This sounds legitimate. Why else would Cultimate have stayed quiet
for so long? The NCUA addresses many of the concerns that have been
posted on RSD and has clearly been in development for sometime. The
idea of “more than one weekend” speaks directly to the small schools
out of the “inner circle” that wabartenstein champions with his “fuck
those elitists” rhetoric.

I think the real problem here is that the NCUA was presented after
C1. In the spirit of rampant analogies, I envision Cultimate at the
Olympics, prepared for the triple jump. Years of training, sweat,
blood, envisioning coming down to one moment in time. Hop, skip, step
on a shoelace. Now they’re flying forward, trying to get their feet
in front of them, wishing they had simply tied double-knots. If
anyone knows why the launch was so poorly executed, fill us in. As an
aside, if we all get one assumption per post, mine is that the NCUA
was the original dream.

An incredible amount of work has gone into all of this. How much
damage has been done in the past three weeks? Has the hatred of
“elite” ultimate become so indelible that non-C1 teams will boycott
NCUA? See: biting off noses to spite faces. I hear claims to purity
and fairness, but the snide, arrogant tone sends a different message.
We have what I can only assume are college freshman (earliest posts
dated September 2008, ad hominem arguments, hormonally emotive, etc.)
vitiating a man they’ve never met because his work has offended them.
Sheer criticism is lazy. Engage in debate. Argue. Offer
alternatives. Your attacks reek “IGNORANCE!”

Money… Everything comes down to money. You’ve pilloried Skip for
thinking that he could make a living by committing himself to a sport
he loves. A living, not a killing. Even Will Deaver has a salary.

Abandon your assumptions. 10% of voters still believe that Obama is
Muslim.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5645 is a reply to message #5638] Sat, 08 November 2008 05:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff
Messages: 338
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
More likely than not the NCUA is an attempt at damage control by
Conference1 to address a lot of the concerns raised in this andother
forums (or Cultimate's response to the UPA not bowing down to the
Conference1 proposal). There appears to be a $25 dollar per player
fee to address the costs of having to replicate the UPA rostering
functions, staff salaries and pay legal fees for incorporation. So
Cultimate has now begun to the path to becoming exactly the
organizaton it purports to be ineffective and not having the ability
to address it's members concerns. If the Board of Advisors begin to
think in the best interest of the sport, they will find themselves
sitting in a proxy UPA Board meeting having to weigh such non-sexy
issues as insurance, gender eqaulity, fair representation for the
geographic regions in Championship play and how to keep the cost of
playing college Ultimate from becoming prohibitive to a student/
athlete. Maybe they will develop fundraising strategies as they
intend to cut tournaments as a fund raiser for many colleges.

All it boils down to is very little change beyond some window dressing
marketing points about rivalries which already exist, levels of
competition which already take place and a very expensive way to deal
with the weather as it affects College Ultimate.






On Nov 8, 4:36 am, who.i.am.on.the.ed...@gmail.com wrote:
> What a shit storm.
>
> Boycotts. Toad’s “support.” Cyle VanAuken.  Skip/Deaver match-up.
> Snubbing. Sexism. False analogies....
>
> How much do we really know?  Peeling back layers of RSD spam, we find
> the original October 15 post with a link to a jpeg (http://
> cultimate.com/conference1/) and a list of questions.
> 3...2...1....Lift off.
>
> The original thread contains the following statements (emphasis, my
> own):
> "I am __assuming__ that the tournaments will continue, with Conference
> 1 conference games, and then the rest of the riffraff playing the
> regular tournaments."
> "__I do not believe__ that Non-C1 teams will be allowed to play at
> these tournaments.  CI teams only play at C1 tournaments, and only C1
> teams play at C1 tournaments."
> "They have only their own interests in mind.  And they don't give a
> d*mn about the hundreds of non-Conference1 colleges out there, and the
> thousands of students on those teams."
>
> Hector’s blog from the 15th received a number of anonymous comments
> including these two:
> “Skip would be a fool to underserve the non-C1 teams, and he's no
> fool. I assume we will find out about the non-C1 teams' options and
> tourneys soon.”
> “__The more I hear about this process,__ the more I am convinced that
> Skip's plan is:
> 1) Get the top teams on board, by hook, crook, and, basically, bribery
> (aka "sponsorship and appearance fees"). (Skip almost certainly
> intends to lose money in year one.)
> 2) Assuming step 1 works, play brinksmanship with the UPA ("we've got
> the teams on board") and hope the admin caves in and offers rostering
> assistance. If the UPA calls their bluff, then they will have an
> awfully hard time making C1 work.
> 3) In the near term, make his profits by amping up the fees on the non-
> C1 events. In the long term, once CUltimate's control is firm, start
> charging the C1 teams. Presto: Skip is now running the college series
> for a profit.”
>
> Assumptions, rumors, hearsay.
>
> YFC1997 said, “good work spreading more misinformation at a time when
> it seems that practically no one has the full story.”
>
> Exactly.
>
> “Maybe between the time when C1 leaked and the meeting of the minds in
> Florida last week everyone agreed to stop talking publicly about
> anything (to Cultimate's detriment clearly). And maybe Cultimate
> honored that request in good faith and good will to the UPA. Who
> knows? Who's doing who the favor here?” – Akira
>
> This sounds legitimate.  Why else would Cultimate have stayed quiet
> for so long?  The NCUA addresses many of the concerns that have been
> posted on RSD and has clearly been in development for sometime.  The
> idea of “more than one weekend” speaks directly to the small schools
> out of the “inner circle” that wabartenstein champions with his “fuck
> those elitists” rhetoric.
>
> I think the real problem here is that the NCUA was presented after
> C1.  In the spirit of rampant analogies, I envision Cultimate at the
> Olympics, prepared for the triple jump.  Years of training, sweat,
> blood, envisioning coming down to one moment in time.  Hop, skip, step
> on a shoelace.  Now they’re flying forward, trying to get their feet
> in front of them, wishing they had simply tied double-knots.  If
> anyone knows why the launch was so poorly executed, fill us in.  As an
> aside, if we all get one assumption per post, mine is that the NCUA
> was the original dream.
>
> An incredible amount of work has gone into all of this.  How much
> damage has been done in the past three weeks?  Has the hatred of
> “elite” ultimate become so indelible that non-C1 teams will boycott
> NCUA?  See: biting off noses to spite faces. I hear claims to purity
> and fairness, but the snide, arrogant tone sends a different message.
> We have what I can only assume are college freshman (earliest posts
> dated September 2008, ad hominem arguments, hormonally emotive, etc.)
> vitiating a man they’ve never met because his work has offended them.
> Sheer criticism is lazy.  Engage in debate. Argue. Offer
> alternatives.  Your attacks reek “IGNORANCE!”
>
> Money… Everything comes down to money. You’ve pilloried Skip for
> thinking that he could make a living by committing himself to a sport
> he loves.  A living, not a killing.  Even Will Deaver has a salary.
>
> Abandon your assumptions.  10% of voters still believe that Obama is
> Muslim.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5647 is a reply to message #5638] Sat, 08 November 2008 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
H
Messages: 249
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
It doesn't seem like it's too far from here to photoshopping bigger
boobs on the women. NCUA.tv?

h

*******
On Nov 8, 2:36 am, who.i.am.on.the.ed...@gmail.com wrote:
What a shit storm.

Boycotts. Toad’s “support.” Cyle VanAuken.  Skip/Deaver match-up.
Snubbing. Sexism. False analogies....
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5649 is a reply to message #5645] Sat, 08 November 2008 07:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pooner
Messages: 33
Registered: September 2008
Member
This situation just keeps gets more stinky and sticky.

We're all talking historic moments these days, and it feels like one
in frisbee-land too. Gosh i hope good beats evil!

Cultimate/ncua/skip-van-satan did well to realize that a website does
seem to legitimize things these days. Jeebus that opening collage is
fuckin hilarious; it reads like merrill-lynch or some other bank/
insurance promo. They really need to be blowing caldwell, cause if
anything makes this take off, it's cause people swallow this
website.

From the website: "In the interim period between an official Board of
Directors and established By-laws, we are being shepherded by a Board
of Advisors" --"shepherded" really scares me somehow.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5650 is a reply to message #5605] Sat, 08 November 2008 07:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
nicholas.kohn
Messages: 37
Registered: October 2008
Member
This looks like a much more developed, better system than C1. IMO,
this is somewhat like what college ultimate SHOULD be.
The only things that would give me pause about NCUA are:
1) Should have at least 1 automatic bid from a region (ala NCAA bball
tourney)
2) Determining eligibility could be a bitch. Is NCUA really gonna
look up every club roster to determine whether or not a player played
club?
3) Refs? Are there gonna be any?
4) What happens to the UPA college division? Obviously the UPA gets
cuts out. Kinda sucks for an organization that has been fostering the
sport/division for so long...
5) Does a win over Colorado-Boulder = a win over Colorado-Denver in
regards to rankings. It'd seem like the former should weigh more;
however, this type of point system might not be fair to teams that
don't get to play the top teams

Kohn
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5652 is a reply to message #5647] Sat, 08 November 2008 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark -Mortakai- Moran
Messages: 152
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
And who would dare boycotting it then?!!???

H wrote:
> It doesn't seem like it's too far from here to photoshopping bigger
> boobs on the women.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5657 is a reply to message #5638] Sat, 08 November 2008 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DLK
Messages: 40
Registered: October 2008
Member
I'm most worried about Kurt Dahlenberg, the coach of Florida being on
the Advisory board.

Why you ask?

Well...

Setting: UNLV fields, Cultimate's Trouble in Vegas 2008

Situation: While Florida plays UBC on the first day Brodie Smith
defends himself during a drawn out argument with a UBC player who
accuses him of making a "Brodie call" that led to a turn and a break
for Florida.

Act 1, Scene 1:

Coach Dahlenberg: Kurt, go get Brodie, he is whining like a girl again
and he won't listen.

Kurt Gibson: Brodie! Shut the hell up and get on the line.

End scene


So, in my humble opinion, the biggest issue that faces college
ultimate has to be:
If Coach (Oh man, I miss Greg T. Nelson) Dahlenberg can't even handle
a C1 player on his own team, how is he going to handle them all?


(Ok, ok, I'm not really worried about him, but I thought that was a
funny story. So sue me.)
(Don't do that.)
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5684 is a reply to message #5657] Sat, 08 November 2008 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mtwilley
Messages: 20
Registered: November 2008
Junior Member
So, I just thought I would mention that for me this is expensive as
fuck. My whole year's club dues were 125 dollars this year, and that
was for probably 10 tournaments. Now I have to pay that for 4.

I hate Florida.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5842 is a reply to message #5684] Mon, 10 November 2008 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Abbie
Messages: 7
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Nov 9, 2:10 am, mtwil...@gmail.com wrote:
> So, I just thought I would mention that for me this is expensive as
> fuck. My whole year's club dues were 125 dollars this year, and that
> was for probably 10 tournaments. Now I have to pay that for 4.
>
> I hate Florida.

yeah... from the "Cost" Section:

"For the 2009 season, annual NCUA dues are $25 per individual. The
cost to attend any NCUA-sanctioned event is $25 per individual,
meaning that the cost of an entire season (three Regular Season
events, the National Championship tournament, and dues) is only $125
per player."

Four years of ultimate: $500 - more if you go to more of their
tournaments?

Lifetime UPA dues: $700? (I think that is what it is now.)
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5865 is a reply to message #5842] Mon, 10 November 2008 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
McB
Messages: 65
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Nov 10, 8:10 pm, Abbie <abigailemer...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 9, 2:10 am, mtwil...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > So, I just thought I would mention that for me this is expensive as
> > fuck. My whole year's club dues were 125 dollars this year, and that
> > was for probably 10 tournaments. Now I have to pay that for 4.
>
> > I hate Florida.
>
> yeah... from the "Cost" Section:
>
> "For the 2009 season, annual NCUA dues are $25 per individual. The
> cost to attend any NCUA-sanctioned event is $25 per individual,
> meaning that the cost of an entire season (three Regular Season
> events, the National Championship tournament, and dues) is only $125
> per player."
>
> Four years of ultimate: $500 - more if you go to more of their
> tournaments?
>
> Lifetime UPA dues: $700? (I think that is what it is now.)

Awesome logic. In case you, or anyone reading your post, didn't
notice, you just compared the sum of four years of annual dues and a
per player tournament fee to a lifetime UPA membership.

NCUA annual dues = $25 ($700 will get you 28 years of NCUA membership)

Please continue to enjoy making stupid arguments.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5867 is a reply to message #5842] Mon, 10 November 2008 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a.adarichev
Messages: 8
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
Why does everybody compare UPA dues to Cultimate's per-tourney fees?
You don't get any tournaments for the UPA dues, you just support the
existence of the organization. People have been arguing about apples
and oranges on this message board for months now...

Since I am no longer in college, I love this NCUA thing. Truly
incredible stuff. Do you realize that the UPA just got usurped by a
rogue organization, which is attempting to take over the entirety of
the men's college division, 500 or whatever teams, in a matter of a
few months? Just think about that concept for a second. This took
quite a bit of work, ambition, marketing savvy, technical skills,
connections, etc and I am extremely impressed. Not sold and still
skeptical, but very impressed.

There is a lot of work still left to do and I think these guys are
tweaking the operation on the fly (which is why those of us not in the
loop have not been getting any updates), but the level of development
that has happened since the initial announcement is astounding.

And, as already mentioned, the website is top-notch. The information
is barebones, but shows progress and is finally starting to satisfy.
The layout is great and the graphics excellent, and I'm not just
talking about the Flash eye-candy. If the UPA had the graphic design
talent to represent information with the same level of clarity as the
diagram on the "Events" page of their website, they would probably
still be running the college division.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5897 is a reply to message #5867] Tue, 11 November 2008 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joe.m.segal
Messages: 185
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 10, 10:33 pm, a.adaric...@gmail.com wrote:
> Why does everybody compare UPA dues to Cultimate's per-tourney fees?
> You don't get any tournaments for the UPA dues, you just support the
> existence of the organization. People have been arguing about apples
> and oranges on this message board for months now...
>
> Since I am no longer in college, I love this NCUA thing. Truly
> incredible stuff. Do you realize that the UPA just got usurped by a
> rogue organization, which is attempting to take over the entirety of
> the men's college division, 500 or whatever teams, in a matter of a
> few months? Just think about that concept for a second. This took
> quite a bit of work, ambition, marketing savvy, technical skills,
> connections, etc and I am extremely impressed. Not sold and still
> skeptical, but very impressed.
>
> There is a lot of work still left to do and I think these guys are
> tweaking the operation on the fly (which is why those of us not in the
> loop have not been getting any updates), but the level of development
> that has happened since the initial announcement is astounding.
>
> And, as already mentioned, the website is top-notch. The information
> is barebones, but shows progress and is finally starting to satisfy.
> The layout is great and the graphics excellent, and I'm not just
> talking about the Flash eye-candy. If the UPA had the graphic design
> talent to represent information with the same level of clarity as the
> diagram on the "Events" page of their website, they would probably
> still be running the college division.

Wow, dude, you are so easily impressed. How about this one: I am
starting a new organization. I will pay for ALL college teams to come
to tournaments in whatever city they would like, everyone gets to be
elite, everyone gets to play at nationals, this is all going to happen
as I am saying it now. Totally usurped. And it took so much work.
Do you realize if you just make a bunch of promises you can sound as
great as you would like? Just everyone pay me up front to join my
organization and I'll get right back to you about what exactly will be
going on.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5901 is a reply to message #5897] Tue, 11 November 2008 00:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mimmo
Messages: 587
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 11, 12:02 am, joe.m.se...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Wow, dude, you are so easily impressed.  How about this one:  I am
> starting a new organization.  I will pay for ALL college teams to come
> to tournaments in whatever city they would like, everyone gets to be
> elite, everyone gets to play at nationals, this is all going to happen
> as I am saying it now.  Totally usurped.  And it took so much work.
> Do you realize if you just make a bunch of promises you can sound as
> great as you would like?  Just everyone pay me up front to join my
> organization and I'll get right back to you about what exactly will be
> going on.

Why would I pay you? You just said you would pay me...
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5903 is a reply to message #5684] Tue, 11 November 2008 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mimmo
Messages: 587
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 8, 11:10 pm, mtwil...@gmail.com wrote:

> I hate Florida.

The state?

It's nice there...warm weather, sandy beaches, beautiful women...
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5905 is a reply to message #5901] Tue, 11 November 2008 02:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
matty j
Messages: 250
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 11, 3:54 am, Mimmo <michaelalfan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 12:02 am, joe.m.se...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > Wow, dude, you are so easily impressed.  How about this one:  I am
> > starting a new organization.  I will pay for ALL college teams to come
> > to tournaments in whatever city they would like, everyone gets to be
> > elite, everyone gets to play at nationals, this is all going to happen
> > as I am saying it now.  Totally usurped.  And it took so much work.
> > Do you realize if you just make a bunch of promises you can sound as
> > great as you would like?  Just everyone pay me up front to join my
> > organization and I'll get right back to you about what exactly will be
> > going on.
>
> Why would I pay you? You just said you would pay me...

I think that's a rather brilliant marketing ployl; convince you that I
am paying you when in reality you will be the one paying.
better read the fine print before you sign.

MJ
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5931 is a reply to message #5905] Tue, 11 November 2008 07:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
joe.m.segal
Messages: 185
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 11, 5:28 am, matty j <maplerowf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 3:54 am, Mimmo <michaelalfan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 11, 12:02 am, joe.m.se...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > Wow, dude, you are so easily impressed.  How about this one:  I am
> > > starting a new organization.  I will pay for ALL college teams to come
> > > to tournaments in whatever city they would like, everyone gets to be
> > > elite, everyone gets to play at nationals, this is all going to happen
> > > as I am saying it now.  Totally usurped.  And it took so much work.
> > > Do you realize if you just make a bunch of promises you can sound as
> > > great as you would like?  Just everyone pay me up front to join my
> > > organization and I'll get right back to you about what exactly will be
> > > going on.
>
> > Why would I pay you? You just said you would pay me...
>
> I think that's a rather brilliant marketing ployl; convince you that I
> am paying you when in reality you will be the one paying.
> better read the fine print before you sign.
>
> MJ

Typical pyramid scheme.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5943 is a reply to message #5931] Tue, 11 November 2008 08:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duchamanos
Messages: 52
Registered: September 2008
Member
Tulsa? Really? After the shitstorm last year, these guys think it's
a good idea to hold a tourney in Tulsa? I kinda get the feeling that
Skip is trying to see how many bad ideas he can get in one program and
still get people to join it.

What happens if all the top teams all decide to go to the same three
tournaments, how much does that skew the results for the
championship? How is Cultimate going to rank teams without a ranking
system in place?

Lot of problems with this one, Adarichev. You Wash U guys are
supposed to be smart. (By the way, where you playin' these days? I
miss seeing you matchup on Karl Doege, who grew another two inches
this month)
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5963 is a reply to message #5903] Tue, 11 November 2008 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BJ
Messages: 197
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 11, 2:53 am, Mimmo <michaelalfan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 8, 11:10 pm, mtwil...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I hate Florida.
>
> The state?
>
> It's nice there...warm weather, sandy beaches, beautiful women...

you like em gray and wrinkly, that's cool with me.
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5971 is a reply to message #5963] Tue, 11 November 2008 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mimmo
Messages: 587
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Nov 11, 10:15 am, BJ <ut.bj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 2:53 am, Mimmo <michaelalfan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 8, 11:10 pm, mtwil...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > I hate Florida.
>
> > The state?
>
> > It's nice there...warm weather, sandy beaches, beautiful women...
>
> you like em gray and wrinkly, that's cool with me.

There aren't THAT many old people...
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5994 is a reply to message #5633] Tue, 11 November 2008 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
allanfieldhouse
Messages: 3
Registered: November 2008
Junior Member
Wow, http://www.collegiateultimate.com/ is a blatant ripoff of
http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

Switch back and forth between the two pages. Buttons, page divisions,
etc are all exactly the same.

"This web page helped propel Obama to victory, maybe it'll work for
NCUA/Confrence1 too."
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #5999 is a reply to message #5994] Tue, 11 November 2008 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Finch
Messages: 46
Registered: November 2008
Member
On Nov 11, 2:57 pm, allanfieldhouse <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow,http://www.collegiateultimate.com/is a blatant ripoff ofhttp://www.barackobama.com/index.php
>
> Switch back and forth between the two pages.  Buttons, page divisions,
> etc are all exactly the same.
>
> "This web page helped propel Obama to victory, maybe it'll work for
> NCUA/Confrence1 too."


This is actually kind of interesting:

The style sheet used in the NCUA site is nearly identical to that used
for the Barak Obama site:
NCUA: http://www.collegiateultimate.com/css/ncua.css
Obama: http://www.barackobama.com/css/globalv3.css


They actually have the same "author" in the stylesheets:
/* CSS
Author: Scott Thomas
Created: 12-15-07
Author: Walker Hamilton
Modified: 08-10-07
*/


From NCUA:
/* CSS
Author: Matt Sewell
Created: 12-15-07
Author: Walker Hamilton
Modified: 08-10-07
*/
Re: NCUA :: Launched at collegiateultimate.com [message #6008 is a reply to message #5999] Tue, 11 November 2008 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
Messages: 56
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Nov 11, 3:41 pm, Finch <ShippensburgScapego...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 2:57 pm, allanfieldhouse <allan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Wow,http://www.collegiateultimate.com/isa blatant ripoff ofhttp://www.barackobama.com/index.php
>
> > Switch back and forth between the two pages.  Buttons, page divisions,
> > etc are all exactly the same.
>
> > "This web page helped propel Obama to victory, maybe it'll work for
> > NCUA/Confrence1 too."
>
> This is actually kind of interesting:
>
> The style sheet used in the NCUA site is nearly identical to that used
> for the Barak Obama site:
> NCUA:http://www.collegiateultimate.com/css/ncua.css
> Obama:http://www.barackobama.com/css/globalv3.css
>
> They actually have the same "author" in the stylesheets:
> /* CSS
> Author: Scott Thomas
> Created: 12-15-07
> Author: Walker Hamilton
> Modified: 08-10-07
> */
>
> From NCUA:
> /* CSS
> Author: Matt Sewell
> Created: 12-15-07
> Author: Walker Hamilton
> Modified: 08-10-07
> */

And if you look on the web for Walker Hamilton, it looks pretty clear
that he's an Obama employee, not someone who worked for the NCUA.

sam th
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