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Home » RSD » RSD Posts » The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option
The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48379] Wed, 16 December 2009 23:15 Go to next message
Bearseth
Messages: 174
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Hey everybody,

We've been off for a while, but we're here to satiate your appetite
until the new year with a special mini-issue featuring the writing of
Xi Xia on the topic of CrossFit. We get a lot of emails of how best to
train in the offseason, and we thought we would present one of the
many approaches out there.

Check it out:
http://www.the-huddle.org/

Thanks for reading!

- Andy & Ben
The Huddle

---
PERMALINK:
http://www.the-huddle.org/features/crossfit-an-offseason-opt ion/
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48386 is a reply to message #48379] Thu, 17 December 2009 04:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ulticritic
Messages: 8204
Registered: April 2009
Senior Member
On Dec 17, 2:15 am, Andy Lovseth <andy.lovs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everybody,
>
> We've been off for a while,

uhmmm, havent noticed
-----------------------------------------


> but we're here to satiate your appetite


IF ONLY THE UPA WAS HALF AS CONCERNED WITH OUT "APPETITE"!!!!!!!
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48402 is a reply to message #48379] Thu, 17 December 2009 07:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bountiful Garden Foun
Messages: 528
Registered: August 2009
Senior Member
On Dec 16, 11:15 pm, Andy Lovseth <andy.lovs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everybody,
>
> We've been off for a while, but we're here to satiate your appetite
> until the new year with a special mini-issue featuring the writing of
> Xi Xia on the topic of CrossFit. We get a lot of emails of how best to
> train in the offseason, and we thought we would present one of the
> many approaches out there.
>
> Check it out:http://www.the-huddle.org/
>
> Thanks for reading!
>
> - Andy & Ben
> The Huddle
>
> ---
> PERMALINK:http://www.the-huddle.org/features/crossfit-an-off season-option/

By far, the BEST way to cross train in the off season is to play
Dischoops.

Great physical and mental workout while you improve your disc handling
skills.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48405 is a reply to message #48402] Thu, 17 December 2009 08:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cooler266
Messages: 25
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
I know I'm going to regret this Frank (please try not to make me
regret this as I'm honestly curious) but how can playing Dischoops,
something where the physical activity seems to be a lot like
goaltimate, or hot box, etc., possibly get you in excellent shape for
club, compared to things like lifting weights, yoga, plyos, cross fit,
etc. Things that increase your strength, flexibility, muscle control,
endurance, and explosive power.

If playing football was the only workout that football players needed
to do to get better, wouldn't they just play football all the time?
Wouldn't that be true for every other sport period?

What is so fundamentally different about dischoops that its better for
you than any of the myriad things that athletes in other sports do to
become faster and stronger?

-Cole


On Dec 17, 10:46 am, Frank <fhuguen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 16, 11:15 pm, Andy Lovseth <andy.lovs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey everybody,
>
> > We've been off for a while, but we're here to satiate your appetite
> > until the new year with a special mini-issue featuring the writing of
> > Xi Xia on the topic of CrossFit. We get a lot of emails of how best to
> > train in the offseason, and we thought we would present one of the
> > many approaches out there.
>
> > Check it out:http://www.the-huddle.org/
>
> > Thanks for reading!
>
> > - Andy & Ben
> > The Huddle
>
> > ---
> > PERMALINK:http://www.the-huddle.org/features/crossfit-an-off season-option/
>
> By far, the BEST way to cross train in the off season is to play
> Dischoops.
>
> Great physical and mental workout while you improve your disc handling
> skills.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48412 is a reply to message #48405] Thu, 17 December 2009 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scpoulos
Messages: 225
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
dude, anything where you are running around and throwing a disc is good cross-training. all you need is another person to throw with on a field, with cleats, making cuts, laying and skying for the disc. all good. has worked wonders for me over the years.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48413 is a reply to message #48412] Thu, 17 December 2009 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cooler266
Messages: 25
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
That doesn't really seem to fit the definition of 'cross-training' in
regards to ultimate. You're just repeating the same motions that you
do on the ultimate field.

Some people are genetic freaks and are born naturally gifted, other
people need to work on it. Clearly just practicing ultimate skills has
worked for you where as for others there seems to be a limit to how
much one can improve without mixing it up and trying new things.


On Dec 17, 1:38 pm, scpoulos14 <scpou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> dude, anything where you are running around and throwing a
> disc is good cross-training.  all you need is another person
> to throw with on a field, with cleats, making cuts, laying
> and skying for the disc.  all good.  has worked wonders for
> me over the years.
> --
> Posted fromhttp://www.rsdnospam.com
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48414 is a reply to message #48402] Thu, 17 December 2009 10:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
placido rapido
Messages: 32
Registered: June 2009
Member
On Dec 17, 7:46 am, Frank <fhuguen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> By far, the BEST way to cross train in the off season is to play
> Dischoops.
> Great physical and mental workout while you improve your disc handling
> skills.

Frank, this is the right way to market your game - I don't see any
reason why Dischoops and Ulty cannot coexist peacefully. Ulty players
are already predisposed to enjoy disc games, in whatever variation.
Tone down the rhetoric and let your game speak for itself.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48415 is a reply to message #48414] Thu, 17 December 2009 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
I have dabbled with Crossfit workouts from time to time over the past
couple of years, although never consistently. I've always considered
the Crossfit workouts to be a good all-around fitness plan that
doesn't necessarily specialize in any one discipline, and does not
lend itself to any one specific goal (that goal in this case being
improved athletic performance on the Ultimate field).

That said, I think Crossfit would absolutely make an effective off-
season workout routine, if mixed with sport-specific movements such as
sprints and plyos (and probably including more direct more work than
the typical Crossfit rotation).

However, most Ultimate players I have been around don't know jack
about lifting weights with proper form, so anyone trying to use
Crossfit should be careful not to hurt themselves. The Olympic lifts
often utilized by Crossfit are great for explosive power and athletic
function, but they are also technical movements that can easily lead
to injury without proper coaching.

My opinion - adopt an off-season program that allows you to get
stronger and more explosive using the same muscles and motions you use
on the field (plyometrics, unilateral and bilateral leg work, core
work, basic compound exercises for upper body), and if you want to get
into some technical lifts or movements, talk to a professional trainer
or coach for help on your technique.

If you've never done heavy back squats, snatches, or clean-and-jerks
and try to jump right into some intense Crossfitting, you're either
going to waste your time or injure yourself.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48418 is a reply to message #48402] Thu, 17 December 2009 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Evan Walter
Messages: 3
Registered: December 2009
Junior Member
On Dec 17, 10:46 am, Frank <fhuguen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 16, 11:15 pm, Andy Lovseth <andy.lovs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey everybody,
>
> > We've been off for a while, but we're here to satiate your appetite
> > until the new year with a special mini-issue featuring the writing of
> > Xi Xia on the topic of CrossFit. We get a lot of emails of how best to
> > train in the offseason, and we thought we would present one of the
> > many approaches out there.
>
> > Check it out:http://www.the-huddle.org/
>
> > Thanks for reading!
>
> > - Andy & Ben
> > The Huddle
>
> > ---
> > PERMALINK:http://www.the-huddle.org/features/crossfit-an-off season-option/
>
> By far, the BEST way to cross train in the off season is to play
> Dischoops.
>
> Great physical and mental workout while you improve your disc handling
> skills.

Disc Hoops is that game with those hula hoop things right. Seems
childish
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48420 is a reply to message #48379] Thu, 17 December 2009 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matt.Pasienski
Messages: 77
Registered: October 2008
Member
Where is the science?

Here is my understanding of how CrossFit differs fundamentally form more traditional exercise routines: You do the same things that normal people do, running jumping lifting etc. except you have to do it all at once on a clock. I've read many articles on cross fit but have seen no science on the additional benefit of doing cross fit over an exercise routine with recovery(i.e. resting until you can perform the run or lift with proper, intense form). It is not obvious to me that splitting up a track workout with push-ups and squats does anything but reduce the quality of your form while running.

Xia Xi is an extraordinary coach with a deep understanding of ultimate and training. However, he seemed to hedge on whether CrossFit was more useful in its psychological aspects or as an effective physical training method for an already motivated athlete. Certainly varied routines, competition, keeping track of progress, and expert advice on form are all key components of a successful training regime. But if they are not unique to CrossFit, then what about CrossFit makes it superior to other training programs?
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48425 is a reply to message #48420] Thu, 17 December 2009 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Dec 17, 3:12 pm, Matt.Pasienski <Matt.Pasien...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Where is the science?
> ....what about
> CrossFit makes it superior to other training programs?
>

Those are good points. FWIW, I've read that "Coach" Glassman who
founded Crossfit has never actually trained any successful athletes
and in fact is does not actually train (don't know if that's true or
not). I have also read many negative critiques of Crossfit. Crossfit
has a very loyal following, but you are right, I'm not aware that
there is any science that shows that it is superior to any other
workout program, and it may even be dangerous or counter-productive,
based on your goals.

When the Huddle says it is an "Offseason Option," sure, I guess it is
one of many options. From an overall fitness perspective, anything
that gets people excited to work out is a good thing, and Crossfit
fits that bill. But it may not be the best option for improving your
abilities in any given sport. Elite Ultimate teams (or hopefuls)
should hook up with an athletic trainer to find a program that will
make you stronger in your specific sport.

:)
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48426 is a reply to message #48420] Thu, 17 December 2009 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T1000
Messages: 59
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Dec 17, 1:12 pm, Matt.Pasienski <Matt.Pasien...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Where is the science?
>
> Here is my understanding of how CrossFit differs
> fundamentally form more traditional exercise routines:  You
> do the same things that normal people do, running jumping
> lifting etc. except you have to do it all at once on a
> clock.

To be clearer, Crossfit sessions involve more traditional workouts as
well, within certain themes (e.g., pure O-lifting strength workouts).
Their signature, iconic workouts are the timed power and stamina
circuits that you've mentioned.

>  I've read many articles on cross fit but have seen
> no science on the additional benefit of doing cross fit over
> an exercise routine with recovery(i.e. resting until you can
> perform the run or lift with proper, intense form).  It is
> not obvious to me that splitting up a track workout with
> push-ups and squats does anything but reduce the quality of
> your form while running.

Yeah, there's not a lot of literature on Crossfit workouts such as
they are (they can be complex to study experimentally), but you can
try to glean what you can from some closely related literature.
There's a lot of research available on the Tabata protocol (which is a
Crossfit staple) and circuit training. Indeed, most of Crossfit's
signature workouts are basically strength circuits. There's also
literature available that focus on the science of rest periods and
active recovery.

> But if they are not unique to CrossFit, then what about
> CrossFit makes it superior to other training programs?

Personally, I think of Crossift as weakness-oriented and completist.
There are other views, but this is my own. Because many workouts
involve elements from traditionally separate disciplines, it is
impossible to remain a successful specialist at Crossfit. It's not
that Crossfit is "superior" for any one sport (obviously, track
runners will want to stay focused on the track; lifters want to stay
focused on their weights), but it requires its disciples to become
well-rounded by drawing their attentions to and exercising their
weaknesses.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48429 is a reply to message #48425] Thu, 17 December 2009 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T1000
Messages: 59
Registered: October 2008
Member
>. . .and it may even be dangerous or counter-productive,
> based on your goals.

For sure, but that's not unique to Crossfit; after all, that's true
for all kinds of exercise. If you have very specific goals, you should
be training for them; not cross-training, right? Diehard Crossfit
loyalists often gush about how much they love the programme, and you
might get the impression they're about to down a glass of Koolaid.
They sometimes forget to acknowledge that, like any programme, it's
not necessarily what everyone wants or needs.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48431 is a reply to message #48429] Thu, 17 December 2009 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T1000
Messages: 59
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Dec 17, 2:12 pm, T1000 <atanarj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >. . .and it may even be dangerous or counter-productive,
> > based on your goals.
>
> For sure, but that's not unique to Crossfit; after all, that's true
> for all kinds of exercise. If you have very specific goals, you should
> be training for them; not cross-training, right?  Diehard Crossfit
> loyalists often gush about how much they love the programme, and you
> might get the impression they're about to down a glass of Koolaid.
> They sometimes forget to acknowledge that, like any programme, it's
> not necessarily what everyone wants or needs.

I should probably say that more carefully: "If you have very specific
short-term goals. . . ." Cross-training is accepted as a good long-
term practice in all kinds of disciplines.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48432 is a reply to message #48431] Thu, 17 December 2009 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Dec 17, 4:32 pm, T1000 <atanarj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I should probably say that more carefully: "If you have very specific
> short-term goals. . . ."  Cross-training is accepted as a good long-
> term practice in all kinds of disciplines.

word
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48433 is a reply to message #48426] Thu, 17 December 2009 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
H
Messages: 249
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Dec 17, 2:51 pm, T1000 <atanarj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 17, 1:12 pm, Matt.Pasienski <Matt.Pasien...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Where is the science?
>
> > Here is my understanding of how CrossFit differs
> > fundamentally form more traditional exercise routines:  You
> > do the same things that normal people do, running jumping
> > lifting etc. except you have to do it all at once on a
> > clock.
>
> To be clearer, Crossfit sessions involve more traditional workouts as
> well, within certain themes (e.g., pure O-lifting strength workouts).
> Their signature, iconic workouts are the timed power and stamina
> circuits that you've mentioned.
>
> >  I've read many articles on cross fit but have seen
> > no science on the additional benefit of doing cross fit over
> > an exercise routine with recovery(i.e. resting until you can
> > perform the run or lift with proper, intense form).  It is
> > not obvious to me that splitting up a track workout with
> > push-ups and squats does anything but reduce the quality of
> > your form while running.
>
> Yeah, there's not a lot of literature on Crossfit workouts such as
> they are (they can be complex to study experimentally), but you can
> try to glean what you can from some closely related literature.
> There's a lot of research available on the Tabata protocol (which is a
> Crossfit staple) and circuit training.  Indeed, most of Crossfit's
> signature workouts are basically strength circuits.  There's also
> literature available that focus on the science of rest periods and
> active recovery.
>
> > But if they are not unique to CrossFit, then what about
> > CrossFit makes it superior to other training programs?
>
> Personally, I think of Crossift as weakness-oriented and completist.
> There are other views, but this is my own.  Because many workouts
> involve elements from traditionally separate disciplines, it is
> impossible to remain a successful specialist at Crossfit.  It's not
> that Crossfit is "superior" for any one sport (obviously, track
> runners will want to stay focused on the track; lifters want to stay
> focused on their weights), but it requires its disciples to become
> well-rounded by drawing their attentions to and exercising their
> weaknesses.

These articles in the NYT were my introduction to the method:
http://themedium.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/21/in-this-weeks- magazine-gods-workout/
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/22/fashion/thursdaystyles/22F itness.html
I've never done it though.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48472 is a reply to message #48413] Fri, 18 December 2009 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scpoulos
Messages: 225
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
"just" practicing ultimate skills? not all I do my man, but it sure is a hell of a way to get better at a game that doesn't require a whole lot of different skills. obviously, weight training, plyometric exercises, and dancing to electronic/hip-hop music will work wonders for you. I just assumed those were a given.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48845 is a reply to message #48405] Fri, 25 December 2009 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rconner7
Messages: 11
Registered: December 2008
Junior Member
On Dec 17, 8:13 am, cooler266 <coleingra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know I'm going to regret this Frank (please try not to make me
> regret this as I'm honestly curious) but how can playing Dischoops,
> something where the physical activity seems to be a lot likegoaltimate, or hot box, etc., possibly get you in excellent shape for
> club, compared to things like lifting weights, yoga, plyos, cross fit,
> etc. Things that increase your strength, flexibility, muscle control,
> endurance, and explosive power.
>
> If playing football was the only workout that football players needed
> to do to get better, wouldn't they just play football all the time?
> Wouldn't that be true for every other sport period?
>
> What is so fundamentally different about dischoops that its better for
> you than any of the myriad things that athletes in other sports do to
> become faster and stronger?
>
> -Cole
>
> On Dec 17, 10:46 am, Frank <fhuguen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 16, 11:15 pm, Andy Lovseth <andy.lovs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Hey everybody,
>
> > > We've been off for a while, but we're here to satiate your appetite
> > > until the new year with a special mini-issue featuring the writing of
> > > Xi Xia on the topic of CrossFit. We get a lot of emails of how best to
> > > train in the offseason, and we thought we would present one of the
> > > many approaches out there.
>
> > > Check it out:http://www.the-huddle.org/
>
> > > Thanks for reading!
>
> > > - Andy & Ben
> > > The Huddle
>
> > > ---
> > > PERMALINK:http://www.the-huddle.org/features/crossfit-an-off season-option/
>
> > By far, the BEST way to cross train in the off season is to play
> > Dischoops.
>
> > Great physical and mental workout while you improve your disc handling
> > skills.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Cole,

If you play Goaltimate with the same vigor as you play Ultimate, then
there is every bit as much excercise. If you play tight defense and
cover the entire Goaltimate field, then I assure you'll get the cross
training you desire.

Plus, by playing more Goalty you get a lot more touches on the disc
than Ultimate, allowing for practicing your catches and throws.
You'll have to come up with creative tosses in order to score,
allowing you to learn beneficial disc skills.

Thanks, Rick Conner
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48903 is a reply to message #48379] Sun, 27 December 2009 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pathfinder1024
Messages: 3
Registered: December 2009
Junior Member
Most ultimate players would get more benefit from something more specialized than crossfit. Crossfit doesn't force progress in major lifts (Squat, Deadlift, Military Press, Bench Press...) as efficiently as simpler workouts.

Take the average 150-170 lb ultimate player... They have probably never squatted in their life, if they have, probably never anything heavy. Take their squat from 135 to 315 for sets of 5 and see what happens to speed, acceleration and explosiveness. Most people could do this in 6-9 months of real training and it would be the single best thing that ever happened to their game and their fitness.

A progressive overload model will work better than crossfit because most ultimate players are weak. They are fast and they can jump because they express force efficiently. Why take the small gains of training what you are good at when you can make huge gains training your weakness?

If you've been lifting for a while and can squat 1.5-2 times your bodyweight, sure crossfit is fine. If you can't, go to the gym 3 times a week, and squat. You need to put a bigger motor in the car. A good program would be Starting Strength, from Mark Rippetoe (who is the "slow lifts" guy for crossfit):

Monday/Wednesday/Friday
Squat 3x5
Bench Press/Military Press 3x5
Pullups 3xfailure/Deadlift 1x5

Start with an empty bar, even though it is really easy. Every time you go in, increase the weight from the last workout. At first you can do jumps of 20 pounds. Pretty quickly it will have to go to 10 pounds in the squat and deadlift, and 5 pounds in the bench press and military press. If you can't finish a set, repeat the weight next workout. If you can't finish the set the second time, lower the weight by 10% and start over the next workout. When you get close to where you stalled, reduce the size of the increases. You'll break through the plateau and keep making progress. Once you have to reset several times in a row, congratulations, you've used up your beginner gains and can go do crossfit. During this, you shouldn't be afraid of gaining weight. Eat as much as you need to to keep the gains coming (if you stall, add a couple glasses of whole milk into your daily diet until you break the plateau).

After 7 months of this (after never squatting or deadlifting before) my max squat was 365, max deadlift was 405, max bench 225 and max military press 145. I could also knock off 20 pullups. The real question though, is if my performance improved-- it improved by leaps and bounds (literally). The difference that dedicated strength training makes is amazing, and yet it is underused and undervalued in the ultimate community.


Here are some links
http://www.higher-fastersports.com/importanceofstrength.html
http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/jumphigher.html
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wik i

And for people who have been training a while.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48920 is a reply to message #48903] Sun, 27 December 2009 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hbrumby
Messages: 51
Registered: October 2008
Member
Question: for the bench press/military press and pullups/deadlift, does one do both of these in each session (I assume alternating sets), or do one or the other in alternating workouts?
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48926 is a reply to message #48920] Sun, 27 December 2009 19:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
"Take their squat from 135 to 315 for sets of 5 and see what happens
to speed, acceleration and explosiveness. Most people could do this in
6-9 months of real training and it would be the single best thing that
ever happened to their game and their fitness."

And ... bingo.

Cross fit is better for out of shape ex-athletes who need to lose
weight and don't have time to complete work outs in each area. The
typical 160-175 pound skinny ultimate player will benefit most from
gaining a little muscle. Lifting heavy weights with low repetitions
is the best way to do this. As you recover best from such work outs
by resting, you should do squats in the off season, when you can do
less running.
Re: The Huddle | Feature No. 24 | CrossFit: An Offseason Option [message #48936 is a reply to message #48926] Mon, 28 December 2009 01:31 Go to previous message
lukesmith
Messages: 28
Registered: December 2009
Junior Member
actually, lifting less than 8 reps at max effort develops recruitment (strength), 8-12 = hypertrophy (size), and high reps = muscular endurance. all this is predicated on lifting that number to failure. crossfit is fine, but it's best if you don't do other things. i.e., if you train for a sport, train for a sport. if you are off season, x fit is a fine thing to do. if your off season workout is 3x a week of indooor soccer, xfit is perfect. if your off season workout is a progressive lifting program moving from endurance to hypertrophy, to strength, you shouldn't add it in. it depends upon your approach to periodization: if your season is ONE YEAR LONG. you should approach it as such. it's complicated.

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