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Open nationals chart [message #40486] Sun, 11 October 2009 15:08 Go to next message
dsb
Messages: 40
Registered: September 2008
Member
think this is right:

http://tinyurl.com/yfurh95
Re: Open nationals chart [message #40497 is a reply to message #40486] Sun, 11 October 2009 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mimmo
Messages: 587
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Oct 11, 3:08 pm, dsb <rowan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> think this is right:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yfurh95

if you're saying this is right in terms of seedings, Madison finished
higher than Machine at Regionals, and are 4-0 against them so they
have to go above them

that throws a wrench in things
Re: Open nationals chart [message #40503 is a reply to message #40497] Sun, 11 October 2009 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dsb
Messages: 40
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Oct 11, 4:35 pm, Mimmo <michaelalfan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 11, 3:08 pm, dsb <rowan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > think this is right:
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/yfurh95
>
> if you're saying this is right in terms of seedings, Madison finished
> higher than Machine at Regionals, and are 4-0 against them so they
> have to go above them
>
> that throws a wrench in things

Naw, just mean chart is setup the right way - it 'seeds' itself.
Truck/Ring screw it up too.
Re: Open nationals chart [message #40508 is a reply to message #40503] Sun, 11 October 2009 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
moremailforscott
Messages: 115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> Naw, just mean chart is setup the right way - it 'seeds' itself.
> Truck/Ring screw it up too.

Probably doesn't affect anything but fwiw, the chart says Revolver is
NW (REG) 2 and NCAL (SECT.) 2. Should be NW 1 and NCAL 1.
Re: Open nationals chart [message #40509 is a reply to message #40508] Sun, 11 October 2009 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
charlie[1]
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2009
Junior Member
On Oct 11, 7:34 pm, "moremailforsc...@yahoo.com"
<moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Naw, just mean chart is setup the right way - it 'seeds' itself.
> > Truck/Ring screw it up too.
>
> Probably doesn't affect anything but fwiw, the chart says Revolver is
> NW (REG) 2 and NCAL (SECT.) 2.  Should be NW 1 and NCAL 1.

Also, screwing things up:
Machine 1-0 vs Bodhi
Madison 0-2 vs Bodhi
Madcow 1-1 vs Bodhi, the one win being the finals of Heavyweights
Re: Open nationals chart [message #40518 is a reply to message #40509] Sun, 11 October 2009 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aghesquiere
Messages: 36
Registered: October 2008
Member
I see it like this, it should be a fascinating tournament:

1. Revolver
2. Chain (more recent victory over Boston with full squads, better
RRI)
3. Boston
4. Sockeye
5. Doublewide (better RRI and higher relative finish than Bravo at
Labor Day, though this could go the other way based on Bravo's semi
finals appearance last year)
6. Bravo
7. Jam (the Truck/Ring pair could go higher since Jam lost to Ring,
but Jam gets the defending champion bump and nod for not having a full
squad during the regular season)
8. GOAT (over Truck based on RRI and better quality wins)
9. Truck
10. Ring
11. Bodhi (next best RRI & wins over Madison)
12. Madison
13. Machine
14. Streetgang
15. Madcow
16. Pike

On Oct 11, 5:54 pm, charlie <coope...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Oct 11, 7:34 pm, "moremailforsc...@yahoo.com"
>
> <moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Naw, just mean chart is setup the right way - it 'seeds' itself.
> > > Truck/Ring screw it up too.
>
> > Probably doesn't affect anything but fwiw, the chart says Revolver is
> > NW (REG) 2 and NCAL (SECT.) 2.  Should be NW 1 and NCAL 1.
>
> Also, screwing things up:
> Machine 1-0 vs Bodhi
> Madison 0-2 vs Bodhi
> Madcow 1-1 vs Bodhi, the one win being the finals of Heavyweights
Re: Open nationals chart [message #40522 is a reply to message #40518] Sun, 11 October 2009 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BladingSawBladeWithBl
Messages: 66
Registered: September 2008
Member
No way Bodhi beats Madison at Natties. Madison just clicked this
weekend.
Open nationals Seeding [message #40526 is a reply to message #40518] Sun, 11 October 2009 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bcstout
Messages: 9
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Oct 11, 9:47 pm, Dutchy <aghesqui...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I see it like this, it should be a fascinating tournament:
>
> 1. Revolver
> 2. Chain (more recent victory over Boston with full squads, better
> RRI)
> 3. Boston
> 4. Sockeye
> 5. Doublewide (better RRI and higher relative finish than Bravo at
> Labor Day, though this could go the other way based on Bravo's semi
> finals appearance last year)
> 6. Bravo
> 7. Jam  (the Truck/Ring pair could go higher since Jam lost to Ring,
> but Jam gets the defending champion bump and nod for not having a full
> squad during the regular season)
> 8. GOAT (over Truck based on RRI and better quality wins)
> 9. Truck
> 10. Ring
> 11. Bodhi (next best RRI & wins over Madison)
> 12. Madison
> 13. Machine
> 14. Streetgang
> 15. Madcow
> 16. Pike
>
> On Oct 11, 5:54 pm, charlie <coope...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 11, 7:34 pm, "moremailforsc...@yahoo.com"
>
> > <moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > Naw, just mean chart is setup the right way - it 'seeds' itself.
> > > > Truck/Ring screw it up too.
>
> > > Probably doesn't affect anything but fwiw, the chart says Revolver is
> > > NW (REG) 2 and NCAL (SECT.) 2.  Should be NW 1 and NCAL 1.
>
> > Also, screwing things up:
> > Machine 1-0 vs Bodhi
> > Madison 0-2 vs Bodhi
> > Madcow 1-1 vs Bodhi, the one win being the finals of Heavyweights

Mostly in agreement, but let's introduce the snake to make things more
interesting. And I can't see GOAT ahead of Truck or Ring (lost to
both at Chesapeake). Here's what I've got:

Right away it gets interesting. Chain and Revolver are the 1/2
contenders, and Revolver has both head-to-heads... but Chain won
Chesapeake, the most recent elite tourney. I put direct matchups over
tourney finishes, so I'm going to go with Revolver. Plus, ECC is a
bigger win than Chesapeake. Ironside and Sockeye are next, and the
head-to-head goes to the Boston boys. At 5 another twist, with a
strong Doublewide season and an up-and-down year for Bravo. Following
the Colorado outcome (admittedly an early tourney), I'll go with
Bravo. Doublewide picks up 6. Now it gets feisty.

What to do with Jam? Mediocre season, no wins among the top 6, and a
couple losses to lower teams (including PoNY, who didn't qualify).
But the only other real contenders are Truck Stop, Ring, and GOAT. Of
those three, Truck has to be first with a Regionals triumph over Ring
and a recent W over GOAT at Chesapeake. But Jam beat Truck in the
early season head-to-head, and they are the defending champs... and
thus claims the 7 seed by default. 8-9-10 as above.

11-13 is tough again... still no teams from Central, and what to do
with pesky Bodhi? They've beat Truck twice, lost to the 2-3 finishers
in Central but beat Madison. Streetgang also has beat both Truck and
Madison, but no one else (including a loss to Machine).

Tiebreaker: respect to the regionals champs, then with the gut:
Madison-Bodhi-Streetgang. Follow Central regional finish to give
Machine-Madcow, then Pike has to bring up the rear. That gives:

1. Revolver NW1
2. Chain Lightning S1
3. Ironside NE1
4. Sockeye NW2
5. Johnny Bravo SW1
6. Doublewide S2
7. Jam NW3
8. Truckstop MA1
9. Ring of Fire MA2
10. GOAT NE2
11. Madison C1
12. Bodhi NE3
13. Streetgang SW2
14. Machine C2
15. MadCow C3
16. Pike MA3

Snaking for pools gives:
1,8,9,16 (Revolver, Truck Stop, Ring, Pike)
2,7,10,15 (Chain, Jam, Goat, Madcow)
3,6,11,14 (Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Machine)
4,5,12,13 (Sockeye, Johnny Bravo, Bodhi, Streetgang)

First pool features all three MA teams - unacceptable. Hard to make a
strong case for any real movement for Truck and Ring, but equally hard
to justify moving Pike up. Means Jam has to give, swapping with Truck
(and maybe Ring, though the 8-9 doesn't make a difference).
Justification: Truck has more recent quality wins (GOAT and Ring),
while Jam's only top 10 victory of the year came against Truck in
Colorado. That swaps Jam and Truck to make for an exciting Pool B and
creating a little NW rematch in A.

Either way, the most exciting Nationals in years... the top 8 is wide
open and the title is up for grabs.
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40538 is a reply to message #40526] Sun, 11 October 2009 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
On Oct 11, 7:45 pm, "Mr. Slam" <bcst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 11, 9:47 pm, Dutchy <aghesqui...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I see it like this, it should be a fascinating tournament:
>
> > 1. Revolver
> > 2. Chain (more recent victory over Boston with full squads, better
> > RRI)
> > 3. Boston
> > 4. Sockeye
> > 5. Doublewide (better RRI and higher relative finish than Bravo at
> > Labor Day, though this could go the other way based on Bravo's semi
> > finals appearance last year)
> > 6. Bravo
> > 7. Jam  (the Truck/Ring pair could go higher since Jam lost to Ring,
> > but Jam gets the defending champion bump and nod for not having a full
> > squad during the regular season)
> > 8. GOAT (over Truck based on RRI and better quality wins)
> > 9. Truck
> > 10. Ring
> > 11. Bodhi (next best RRI & wins over Madison)
> > 12. Madison
> > 13. Machine
> > 14. Streetgang
> > 15. Madcow
> > 16. Pike
>
> > On Oct 11, 5:54 pm, charlie <coope...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 11, 7:34 pm, "moremailforsc...@yahoo.com"
>
> > > <moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Naw, just mean chart is setup the right way - it 'seeds' itself.
> > > > > Truck/Ring screw it up too.
>
> > > > Probably doesn't affect anything but fwiw, the chart says Revolver is
> > > > NW (REG) 2 and NCAL (SECT.) 2.  Should be NW 1 and NCAL 1.
>
> > > Also, screwing things up:
> > > Machine 1-0 vs Bodhi
> > > Madison 0-2 vs Bodhi
> > > Madcow 1-1 vs Bodhi, the one win being the finals of Heavyweights
>
> Mostly in agreement, but let's introduce the snake to make things more
> interesting.  And I can't see GOAT ahead of Truck or Ring (lost to
> both at Chesapeake).  Here's what I've got:
>
> Right away it gets interesting.  Chain and Revolver are the 1/2
> contenders, and Revolver has both head-to-heads... but Chain won
> Chesapeake, the most recent elite tourney.  I put direct matchups over
> tourney finishes, so I'm going to go with Revolver.  Plus, ECC is a
> bigger win than Chesapeake.  Ironside and Sockeye are next, and the
> head-to-head goes to the Boston boys.  At 5 another twist, with a
> strong Doublewide season and an up-and-down year for Bravo.  Following
> the Colorado outcome (admittedly an early tourney), I'll go with
> Bravo.  Doublewide picks up 6.  Now it gets feisty.
>
> What to do with Jam?  Mediocre season, no wins among the top 6, and a
> couple losses to lower teams (including PoNY, who didn't qualify).
> But the only other real contenders are Truck Stop, Ring, and GOAT.  Of
> those three, Truck has to be first with a Regionals triumph over Ring
> and a recent W over GOAT at Chesapeake.  But Jam beat Truck in the
> early season head-to-head, and they are the defending champs... and
> thus claims the 7 seed by default.  8-9-10 as above.
>
> 11-13 is tough again... still no teams from Central, and what to do
> with pesky Bodhi?  They've beat Truck twice, lost to the 2-3 finishers
> in Central but beat Madison.  Streetgang also has beat both Truck and
> Madison, but no one else (including a loss to Machine).
>
> Tiebreaker: respect to the regionals champs, then with the gut:
> Madison-Bodhi-Streetgang.  Follow Central regional finish to give
> Machine-Madcow, then Pike has to bring up the rear.  That gives:
>
> 1. Revolver NW1
> 2. Chain Lightning S1
> 3. Ironside NE1
> 4. Sockeye NW2
> 5. Johnny Bravo SW1
> 6. Doublewide S2
> 7. Jam NW3
> 8. Truckstop MA1
> 9. Ring of Fire MA2
> 10.  GOAT NE2
> 11.  Madison C1
> 12.  Bodhi NE3
> 13. Streetgang SW2
> 14. Machine C2
> 15. MadCow C3
> 16. Pike MA3
>
> Snaking for pools gives:
> 1,8,9,16   (Revolver, Truck Stop, Ring, Pike)
> 2,7,10,15  (Chain, Jam, Goat, Madcow)
> 3,6,11,14  (Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Machine)
> 4,5,12,13   (Sockeye, Johnny Bravo, Bodhi, Streetgang)
>
> First pool features all three MA teams - unacceptable.  Hard to make a
> strong case for any real movement for Truck and Ring, but equally hard
> to justify moving Pike up.  Means Jam has to give, swapping with Truck
> (and maybe Ring, though the 8-9 doesn't make a difference).
> Justification: Truck has more recent quality wins (GOAT and Ring),
> while Jam's only top 10 victory of the year came against Truck in
> Colorado.  That swaps Jam and Truck to make for an exciting Pool B and
> creating a little NW rematch in A.
>
> Either way, the most exciting Nationals in years... the top 8 is wide
> open and the title is up for grabs.

I'm not sure how to conclude "the top 8 is wide open and the title is
up for grabs." Doesn't really look that way to me. Revolver, Chain,
Ironside and Sockeye are the only teams that can take the title. The
next 4 have all lost too many times to the top 4 to give them a chance.
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40539 is a reply to message #40538] Sun, 11 October 2009 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
H
Messages: 249
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Oct 11, 10:25 pm, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
> On Oct 11, 7:45 pm, "Mr. Slam" <bcst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 11, 9:47 pm, Dutchy <aghesqui...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I see it like this, it should be a fascinating tournament:
>
> > > 1. Revolver
> > > 2. Chain (more recent victory over Boston with full squads, better
> > > RRI)
> > > 3. Boston
> > > 4. Sockeye
> > > 5. Doublewide (better RRI and higher relative finish than Bravo at
> > > Labor Day, though this could go the other way based on Bravo's semi
> > > finals appearance last year)
> > > 6. Bravo
> > > 7. Jam  (the Truck/Ring pair could go higher since Jam lost to Ring,
> > > but Jam gets the defending champion bump and nod for not having a full
> > > squad during the regular season)
> > > 8. GOAT (over Truck based on RRI and better quality wins)
> > > 9. Truck
> > > 10. Ring
> > > 11. Bodhi (next best RRI & wins over Madison)
> > > 12. Madison
> > > 13. Machine
> > > 14. Streetgang
> > > 15. Madcow
> > > 16. Pike
>
> > > On Oct 11, 5:54 pm, charlie <coope...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 11, 7:34 pm, "moremailforsc...@yahoo.com"
>
> > > > <moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Naw, just mean chart is setup the right way - it 'seeds' itself..
> > > > > > Truck/Ring screw it up too.
>
> > > > > Probably doesn't affect anything but fwiw, the chart says Revolver is
> > > > > NW (REG) 2 and NCAL (SECT.) 2.  Should be NW 1 and NCAL 1.
>
> > > > Also, screwing things up:
> > > > Machine 1-0 vs Bodhi
> > > > Madison 0-2 vs Bodhi
> > > > Madcow 1-1 vs Bodhi, the one win being the finals of Heavyweights
>
> > Mostly in agreement, but let's introduce the snake to make things more
> > interesting.  And I can't see GOAT ahead of Truck or Ring (lost to
> > both at Chesapeake).  Here's what I've got:
>
> > Right away it gets interesting.  Chain and Revolver are the 1/2
> > contenders, and Revolver has both head-to-heads... but Chain won
> > Chesapeake, the most recent elite tourney.  I put direct matchups over
> > tourney finishes, so I'm going to go with Revolver.  Plus, ECC is a
> > bigger win than Chesapeake.  Ironside and Sockeye are next, and the
> > head-to-head goes to the Boston boys.  At 5 another twist, with a
> > strong Doublewide season and an up-and-down year for Bravo.  Following
> > the Colorado outcome (admittedly an early tourney), I'll go with
> > Bravo.  Doublewide picks up 6.  Now it gets feisty.
>
> > What to do with Jam?  Mediocre season, no wins among the top 6, and a
> > couple losses to lower teams (including PoNY, who didn't qualify).
> > But the only other real contenders are Truck Stop, Ring, and GOAT.  Of
> > those three, Truck has to be first with a Regionals triumph over Ring
> > and a recent W over GOAT at Chesapeake.  But Jam beat Truck in the
> > early season head-to-head, and they are the defending champs... and
> > thus claims the 7 seed by default.  8-9-10 as above.
>
> > 11-13 is tough again... still no teams from Central, and what to do
> > with pesky Bodhi?  They've beat Truck twice, lost to the 2-3 finishers
> > in Central but beat Madison.  Streetgang also has beat both Truck and
> > Madison, but no one else (including a loss to Machine).
>
> > Tiebreaker: respect to the regionals champs, then with the gut:
> > Madison-Bodhi-Streetgang.  Follow Central regional finish to give
> > Machine-Madcow, then Pike has to bring up the rear.  That gives:
>
> > 1. Revolver NW1
> > 2. Chain Lightning S1
> > 3. Ironside NE1
> > 4. Sockeye NW2
> > 5. Johnny Bravo SW1
> > 6. Doublewide S2
> > 7. Jam NW3
> > 8. Truckstop MA1
> > 9. Ring of Fire MA2
> > 10.  GOAT NE2
> > 11.  Madison C1
> > 12.  Bodhi NE3
> > 13. Streetgang SW2
> > 14. Machine C2
> > 15. MadCow C3
> > 16. Pike MA3
>
> > Snaking for pools gives:
> > 1,8,9,16   (Revolver, Truck Stop, Ring, Pike)
> > 2,7,10,15  (Chain, Jam, Goat, Madcow)
> > 3,6,11,14  (Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Machine)
> > 4,5,12,13   (Sockeye, Johnny Bravo, Bodhi, Streetgang)
>
> > First pool features all three MA teams - unacceptable.  Hard to make a
> > strong case for any real movement for Truck and Ring, but equally hard
> > to justify moving Pike up.  Means Jam has to give, swapping with Truck
> > (and maybe Ring, though the 8-9 doesn't make a difference).
> > Justification: Truck has more recent quality wins (GOAT and Ring),
> > while Jam's only top 10 victory of the year came against Truck in
> > Colorado.  That swaps Jam and Truck to make for an exciting Pool B and
> > creating a little NW rematch in A.
>
> > Either way, the most exciting Nationals in years... the top 8 is wide
> > open and the title is up for grabs.
>
> I'm not sure how to conclude "the top 8 is wide open and the title is
> up for grabs." Doesn't really look that way to me. Revolver, Chain,
> Ironside and Sockeye are the only teams that can take the title. The
> next 4 have all lost too many times to the top 4 to give them a chance.

I think better phrasing would be that no game can be overlooked at
this tournament. Any of the lower seeds can pull it together and win
a game against any of the upper seeds, making the outcome for the top
8 pretty unpredictable. All it takes is a few crazy upsets to match
up some big guns in the power pools or the play-in games, and that is
certainly a possibility with this field, no matter how you seed it.

h
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40541 is a reply to message #40526] Sun, 11 October 2009 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aghesquiere
Messages: 36
Registered: October 2008
Member
Goat going down to Truck and Ring at Chesapeake is a good point; the
wins the other way around at Boston is too early to mean much, but
GOAT's win at ECC over Ring is more weighty and I consider there to be
no regular season advantage for Ring over GOAT. I agree the 3 teams
from the MA in one pool is to be avoided and I dont like moving Jam
down because the defending champ deserves more benefit of the doubt,
plus their team has been missing players at tournaments all year and
their regular season record is still pretty strong regardless. So my
suggestion for an adjustment to kill the 3 MA pool thing would be
swapping just GOAT and Ring to get:

1,8,9,16 (Revolver, Truck Stop, GOAT, Pike)
2,7,10,15 (Chain, Jam, Ring, Madcow)
3,6,11,14 (Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Machine)
4,5,12,13 (Sockeye, Johnny Bravo, Bodhi, Streetgang)


On Oct 11, 7:45 pm, "Mr. Slam" <bcst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 11, 9:47 pm, Dutchy <aghesqui...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I see it like this, it should be a fascinating tournament:
>
> > 1. Revolver
> > 2. Chain (more recent victory over Boston with full squads, better
> > RRI)
> > 3. Boston
> > 4. Sockeye
> > 5. Doublewide (better RRI and higher relative finish than Bravo at
> > Labor Day, though this could go the other way based on Bravo's semi
> > finals appearance last year)
> > 6. Bravo
> > 7. Jam  (the Truck/Ring pair could go higher since Jam lost to Ring,
> > but Jam gets the defending champion bump and nod for not having a full
> > squad during the regular season)
> > 8. GOAT (over Truck based on RRI and better quality wins)
> > 9. Truck
> > 10. Ring
> > 11. Bodhi (next best RRI & wins over Madison)
> > 12. Madison
> > 13. Machine
> > 14. Streetgang
> > 15. Madcow
> > 16. Pike
>
> > On Oct 11, 5:54 pm, charlie <coope...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 11, 7:34 pm, "moremailforsc...@yahoo.com"
>
> > > <moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Naw, just mean chart is setup the right way - it 'seeds' itself.
> > > > > Truck/Ring screw it up too.
>
> > > > Probably doesn't affect anything but fwiw, the chart says Revolver is
> > > > NW (REG) 2 and NCAL (SECT.) 2.  Should be NW 1 and NCAL 1.
>
> > > Also, screwing things up:
> > > Machine 1-0 vs Bodhi
> > > Madison 0-2 vs Bodhi
> > > Madcow 1-1 vs Bodhi, the one win being the finals of Heavyweights
>
> Mostly in agreement, but let's introduce the snake to make things more
> interesting.  And I can't see GOAT ahead of Truck or Ring (lost to
> both at Chesapeake).  Here's what I've got:
>
> Right away it gets interesting.  Chain and Revolver are the 1/2
> contenders, and Revolver has both head-to-heads... but Chain won
> Chesapeake, the most recent elite tourney.  I put direct matchups over
> tourney finishes, so I'm going to go with Revolver.  Plus, ECC is a
> bigger win than Chesapeake.  Ironside and Sockeye are next, and the
> head-to-head goes to the Boston boys.  At 5 another twist, with a
> strong Doublewide season and an up-and-down year for Bravo.  Following
> the Colorado outcome (admittedly an early tourney), I'll go with
> Bravo.  Doublewide picks up 6.  Now it gets feisty.
>
> What to do with Jam?  Mediocre season, no wins among the top 6, and a
> couple losses to lower teams (including PoNY, who didn't qualify).
> But the only other real contenders are Truck Stop, Ring, and GOAT.  Of
> those three, Truck has to be first with a Regionals triumph over Ring
> and a recent W over GOAT at Chesapeake.  But Jam beat Truck in the
> early season head-to-head, and they are the defending champs... and
> thus claims the 7 seed by default.  8-9-10 as above.
>
> 11-13 is tough again... still no teams from Central, and what to do
> with pesky Bodhi?  They've beat Truck twice, lost to the 2-3 finishers
> in Central but beat Madison.  Streetgang also has beat both Truck and
> Madison, but no one else (including a loss to Machine).
>
> Tiebreaker: respect to the regionals champs, then with the gut:
> Madison-Bodhi-Streetgang.  Follow Central regional finish to give
> Machine-Madcow, then Pike has to bring up the rear.  That gives:
>
> 1. Revolver NW1
> 2. Chain Lightning S1
> 3. Ironside NE1
> 4. Sockeye NW2
> 5. Johnny Bravo SW1
> 6. Doublewide S2
> 7. Jam NW3
> 8. Truckstop MA1
> 9. Ring of Fire MA2
> 10.  GOAT NE2
> 11.  Madison C1
> 12.  Bodhi NE3
> 13. Streetgang SW2
> 14. Machine C2
> 15. MadCow C3
> 16. Pike MA3
>
> Snaking for pools gives:
> 1,8,9,16   (Revolver, Truck Stop, Ring, Pike)
> 2,7,10,15  (Chain, Jam, Goat, Madcow)
> 3,6,11,14  (Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Machine)
> 4,5,12,13   (Sockeye, Johnny Bravo, Bodhi, Streetgang)
>
> First pool features all three MA teams - unacceptable.  Hard to make a
> strong case for any real movement for Truck and Ring, but equally hard
> to justify moving Pike up.  Means Jam has to give, swapping with Truck
> (and maybe Ring, though the 8-9 doesn't make a difference).
> Justification: Truck has more recent quality wins (GOAT and Ring),
> while Jam's only top 10 victory of the year came against Truck in
> Colorado.  That swaps Jam and Truck to make for an exciting Pool B and
> creating a little NW rematch in A.
>
> Either way, the most exciting Nationals in years... the top 8 is wide
> open and the title is up for grabs.
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40551 is a reply to message #40541] Mon, 12 October 2009 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
homrbush
Messages: 429
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
These ranking are based on just my gut feeling on who is the better
team (taking into account regional finishes and their requirements in
regards to Nationals seeding). It's really hard to look at head to
head, or even RRI, because even at top tournaments, some teams take it
seriously, others are working on new systems, working in new players,
nursing injuries, etc.

1) Revolver
2) Sockeye
3) Chain Lightening (I think these are clearly the top 3)
4) Ironside
5) Doublewide
6) Jam (the remaining group that still has realistic title hopes)
7) Johnny Bravo
8) GOAT
9) Truck Stop
10) Ring of Fire (probably hurt the worst by their Regionals finish.
I would have had them 7 otherwise. This group wraps up potential semi
finalists)
11) Madison
12) Bodhi (long shot quarterfinalists)
13) Machine
14) Madcow
15) Pike
16) Streetgang

Pools of:
A) Revolver, GOAT, Truck Stop, Streetgang
B) Sockeye, Bravo, Ring, Pike
C) Chain, Jam, Madison, Madcow
D) Ironside, Doublewide, Bodhi, Machine

Some fairly strong 3 seeds this though, it wouldn't be a complete
shock if Truck Stop, Ring or Madison advance to power pools instead of
GOAT, Bravo and Jam.
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40607 is a reply to message #40541] Mon, 12 October 2009 10:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Grant
Messages: 166
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Oct 12, 1:26 am, Dutchy <aghesqui...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Goat going down to Truck and Ring at Chesapeake is a good point; the
> wins the other way around at Boston is too early to mean much, but
> GOAT's win at ECC over Ring is more weighty and I consider there to be
> no regular season advantage for Ring over GOAT.  I agree the 3 teams
> from the MA in one pool is to be avoided and I dont like moving Jam
> down because the defending champ deserves more benefit of the doubt,
> plus their team has been missing players at tournaments all year and
> their regular season record is still pretty strong regardless.  So my
> suggestion for an adjustment to kill the 3 MA pool thing would be
> swapping just GOAT and Ring to get:
>
> 1,8,9,16   (Revolver, Truck Stop, GOAT, Pike)
> 2,7,10,15  (Chain, Jam, Ring, Madcow)
> 3,6,11,14  (Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Machine)
> 4,5,12,13   (Sockeye, Johnny Bravo, Bodhi, Streetgang)
>
> On Oct 11, 7:45 pm, "Mr. Slam" <bcst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 11, 9:47 pm, Dutchy <aghesqui...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I see it like this, it should be a fascinating tournament:
>
> > > 1. Revolver
> > > 2. Chain (more recent victory over Boston with full squads, better
> > > RRI)
> > > 3. Boston
> > > 4. Sockeye
> > > 5. Doublewide (better RRI and higher relative finish than Bravo at
> > > Labor Day, though this could go the other way based on Bravo's semi
> > > finals appearance last year)
> > > 6. Bravo
> > > 7. Jam  (the Truck/Ring pair could go higher since Jam lost to Ring,
> > > but Jam gets the defending champion bump and nod for not having a full
> > > squad during the regular season)
> > > 8. GOAT (over Truck based on RRI and better quality wins)
> > > 9. Truck
> > > 10. Ring
> > > 11. Bodhi (next best RRI & wins over Madison)
> > > 12. Madison
> > > 13. Machine
> > > 14. Streetgang
> > > 15. Madcow
> > > 16. Pike
>
> > > On Oct 11, 5:54 pm, charlie <coope...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 11, 7:34 pm, "moremailforsc...@yahoo.com"
>
> > > > <moremailforsc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > Naw, just mean chart is setup the right way - it 'seeds' itself..
> > > > > > Truck/Ring screw it up too.
>
> > > > > Probably doesn't affect anything but fwiw, the chart says Revolver is
> > > > > NW (REG) 2 and NCAL (SECT.) 2.  Should be NW 1 and NCAL 1.
>
> > > > Also, screwing things up:
> > > > Machine 1-0 vs Bodhi
> > > > Madison 0-2 vs Bodhi
> > > > Madcow 1-1 vs Bodhi, the one win being the finals of Heavyweights
>
> > Mostly in agreement, but let's introduce the snake to make things more
> > interesting.  And I can't see GOAT ahead of Truck or Ring (lost to
> > both at Chesapeake).  Here's what I've got:
>
> > Right away it gets interesting.  Chain and Revolver are the 1/2
> > contenders, and Revolver has both head-to-heads... but Chain won
> > Chesapeake, the most recent elite tourney.  I put direct matchups over
> > tourney finishes, so I'm going to go with Revolver.  Plus, ECC is a
> > bigger win than Chesapeake.  Ironside and Sockeye are next, and the
> > head-to-head goes to the Boston boys.  At 5 another twist, with a
> > strong Doublewide season and an up-and-down year for Bravo.  Following
> > the Colorado outcome (admittedly an early tourney), I'll go with
> > Bravo.  Doublewide picks up 6.  Now it gets feisty.
>
> > What to do with Jam?  Mediocre season, no wins among the top 6, and a
> > couple losses to lower teams (including PoNY, who didn't qualify).
> > But the only other real contenders are Truck Stop, Ring, and GOAT.  Of
> > those three, Truck has to be first with a Regionals triumph over Ring
> > and a recent W over GOAT at Chesapeake.  But Jam beat Truck in the
> > early season head-to-head, and they are the defending champs... and
> > thus claims the 7 seed by default.  8-9-10 as above.
>
> > 11-13 is tough again... still no teams from Central, and what to do
> > with pesky Bodhi?  They've beat Truck twice, lost to the 2-3 finishers
> > in Central but beat Madison.  Streetgang also has beat both Truck and
> > Madison, but no one else (including a loss to Machine).
>
> > Tiebreaker: respect to the regionals champs, then with the gut:
> > Madison-Bodhi-Streetgang.  Follow Central regional finish to give
> > Machine-Madcow, then Pike has to bring up the rear.  That gives:
>
> > 1. Revolver NW1
> > 2. Chain Lightning S1
> > 3. Ironside NE1
> > 4. Sockeye NW2
> > 5. Johnny Bravo SW1
> > 6. Doublewide S2
> > 7. Jam NW3
> > 8. Truckstop MA1
> > 9. Ring of Fire MA2
> > 10.  GOAT NE2
> > 11.  Madison C1
> > 12.  Bodhi NE3
> > 13. Streetgang SW2
> > 14. Machine C2
> > 15. MadCow C3
> > 16. Pike MA3
>
> > Snaking for pools gives:
> > 1,8,9,16   (Revolver, Truck Stop, Ring, Pike)
> > 2,7,10,15  (Chain, Jam, Goat, Madcow)
> > 3,6,11,14  (Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Machine)
> > 4,5,12,13   (Sockeye, Johnny Bravo, Bodhi, Streetgang)
>
> > First pool features all three MA teams - unacceptable.  Hard to make a
> > strong case for any real movement for Truck and Ring, but equally hard
> > to justify moving Pike up.  Means Jam has to give, swapping with Truck
> > (and maybe Ring, though the 8-9 doesn't make a difference).
> > Justification: Truck has more recent quality wins (GOAT and Ring),
> > while Jam's only top 10 victory of the year came against Truck in
> > Colorado.  That swaps Jam and Truck to make for an exciting Pool B and
> > creating a little NW rematch in A.
>
> > Either way, the most exciting Nationals in years... the top 8 is wide
> > open and the title is up for grabs.

I like switching Ring and Goat to leave Truck and Pike in the same
pool because although Pike and Truck are in the same region, they have
yet to play each other this year. I would also switch Doublewide and
Bravo. Doublewide has a win against the top 4 whereas Bravo doesn't.
That way, Bravo and Streetgang avoid being in the same pool as well.
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40661 is a reply to message #40607] Mon, 12 October 2009 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ross.lenta
Messages: 26
Registered: March 2009
Junior Member
Bravo and DW are 1-1 matching up at Co Cup. DW arguably had a better
showing at Labor Day, including a one point win over Revolver, and
their four losses of the season are to Sockeye, Bravo, and Chain
twice. Bravo has losses to Madison, DW, Ironside, Chain, Revolver,
Sockeye and Sub... but made semis last year. Could go either way but I
give the nod to Texas.

1. Revolver
2. Chain
3. Boston
4. Sockeye

5. DW
6. Bravo

7. Jam
8. Truck
9. Ring
10. GOAT

The nationals teams thread has my reasons for 11-16...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.disc/browse_thread/ thread/37af670781432f6d?hl=en#
11. Bodhi
12. Madison
13. Machine
14. Streetgang
15. Madcow
16. Pike

Pools of --
Revolver, Truck, Ring, Pike
Chain, Jam, GOAT, Madcow
Boston, Bravo, Bodhi, Streetgang
Sockeye, DW, Madison, Machine

No one will like these pools. Though I wouldn't mind another shot at
Bravo.

Streetgang #14

[Updated on: Mon, 12 October 2009 14:21] by Moderator

Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40895 is a reply to message #40661] Mon, 12 October 2009 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
keven
Messages: 11
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
> Revolver, Truck, Ring, Pike
Stupid: Really all three MA teams in the same pool.
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40907 is a reply to message #40895] Mon, 12 October 2009 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
patrickjmooney
Messages: 89
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Oct 12, 9:32 pm, keven <kevbofris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Revolver, Truck, Ring, Pike
>
> Stupid: Really all three MA teams in the same pool.

i think the seeding found on http://ultfris.blogspot.com/2009/10/open-nationals-seedings. html
are a little more reasonable and take into account more in depth
analysis of results and regional considerations (ie having pike, ring
and truck all in one pool)

A: Revolver, GOAT, Truck Stop, Pike

B: Chain, JAM, Ring, Madcow

C: Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Streetgang

D: Sockeye, Bravo, Machine, Bodhi
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40912 is a reply to message #40907] Mon, 12 October 2009 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Knappy
Messages: 830
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
someone from Sockeye must've drawn that one up


On Oct 12, 10:12 pm, Mooney <patrickjmoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 9:32 pm, keven <kevbofris...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Revolver, Truck, Ring, Pike
>
> > Stupid: Really all three MA teams in the same pool.
>
> i think the seeding found onhttp://ultfris.blogspot.com/2009/10/open-nationals-seeding s.html
> are a little more reasonable and take into account more in depth
> analysis of results and regional considerations (ie having pike, ring
> and truck all in one pool)
>
> A: Revolver, GOAT, Truck Stop, Pike
>
> B: Chain, JAM, Ring, Madcow
>
> C: Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Streetgang
>
> D: Sockeye, Bravo, Machine, Bodhi
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40915 is a reply to message #40907] Mon, 12 October 2009 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Knappy
Messages: 830
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Mooney, unless I am hallucinating.... that's not what AJ wrote,,,,
that's what you wrote. His pools are:
You have Ironside as a 4 seed........not gonna happen

A
Revolver
Truck Stop
GOAT
Pike

B
Ironside
Jam
Ring
Madcow

C
Chain
Johnny Bravo
Madison
Streetgang

D
Sockeye
Doublewide
Machine
Bodhi

On Oct 12, 10:12 pm, Mooney <patrickjmoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 9:32 pm, keven <kevbofris...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Revolver, Truck, Ring, Pike
>
> > Stupid: Really all three MA teams in the same pool.
>
> i think the seeding found onhttp://ultfris.blogspot.com/2009/10/open-nationals-seeding s.html
> are a little more reasonable and take into account more in depth
> analysis of results and regional considerations (ie having pike, ring
> and truck all in one pool)
>
> A: Revolver, GOAT, Truck Stop, Pike
>
> B: Chain, JAM, Ring, Madcow
>
> C: Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Streetgang
>
> D: Sockeye, Bravo, Machine, Bodhi
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40923 is a reply to message #40915] Mon, 12 October 2009 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
patrickjmooney
Messages: 89
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Oct 12, 10:24 pm, Knappy <knappy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mooney, unless I am hallucinating.... that's not what AJ wrote,,,,
> that's what you wrote. His pools are:
> You have Ironside as a 4 seed........not gonna happen
>
> A
> Revolver
> Truck Stop
> GOAT
> Pike
>
> B
> Ironside
> Jam
> Ring
> Madcow
>
> C
> Chain
> Johnny Bravo
> Madison
> Streetgang
>
> D
> Sockeye
> Doublewide
> Machine
> Bodhi
>
> On Oct 12, 10:12 pm, Mooney <patrickjmoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12, 9:32 pm, keven <kevbofris...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Revolver, Truck, Ring, Pike
>
> > > Stupid: Really all three MA teams in the same pool.
>
> > i think the seeding found onhttp://ultfris.blogspot.com/2009/10/open-nationals-seeding s.html
> > are a little more reasonable and take into account more in depth
> > analysis of results and regional considerations (ie having pike, ring
> > and truck all in one pool)
>
> > A: Revolver, GOAT, Truck Stop, Pike
>
> > B: Chain, JAM, Ring, Madcow
>
> > C: Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Streetgang
>
> > D: Sockeye, Bravo, Machine, Bodhi

hahah i didnt write that, i copied and pasted it and i dont think i
ever stated that i did write that though. i believe these are AJs
adjusted seeds from someone on Bravo, i just supported them along with
others

and according to what i C&P'd it has ironside as a #3 seed and i
believe the reasoning is there on the site.

wake up dude
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40930 is a reply to message #40923] Mon, 12 October 2009 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
On Oct 12, 7:39 pm, Mooney <patrickjmoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 10:24 pm, Knappy <knappy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mooney, unless I am hallucinating.... that's not what AJ wrote,,,,
> > that's what you wrote. His pools are:
> > You have Ironside as a 4 seed........not gonna happen
>
> > A
> > Revolver
> > Truck Stop
> > GOAT
> > Pike
>
> > B
> > Ironside
> > Jam
> > Ring
> > Madcow
>
> > C
> > Chain
> > Johnny Bravo
> > Madison
> > Streetgang
>
> > D
> > Sockeye
> > Doublewide
> > Machine
> > Bodhi
>
> > On Oct 12, 10:12 pm, Mooney <patrickjmoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 12, 9:32 pm, keven <kevbofris...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Revolver, Truck, Ring, Pike
>
> > > > Stupid: Really all three MA teams in the same pool.
>
> > > i think the seeding found onhttp://ultfris.blogspot.com/2009/10/open-nationals-seeding s.html
> > > are a little more reasonable and take into account more in depth
> > > analysis of results and regional considerations (ie having pike, ring
> > > and truck all in one pool)
>
> > > A: Revolver, GOAT, Truck Stop, Pike
>
> > > B: Chain, JAM, Ring, Madcow
>
> > > C: Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Streetgang
>
> > > D: Sockeye, Bravo, Machine, Bodhi
>
> hahah i didnt write that, i copied and pasted it and i dont think i
> ever stated that i did write that though. i believe these are AJs
> adjusted seeds from someone on Bravo, i just supported them along with
> others
>
> and according to what i C&P'd it has ironside as a #3 seed and i
> believe the reasoning is there on the site.
>
> wake up dude

After everyone stops arguing, who will the semifinalists be?
Re: Open nationals Seeding [message #40931 is a reply to message #40930] Mon, 12 October 2009 21:27 Go to previous message
Bountiful Garden Foun
Messages: 528
Registered: August 2009
Senior Member
On Oct 12, 8:52 pm, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
> On Oct 12, 7:39 pm, Mooney <patrickjmoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 12, 10:24 pm, Knappy <knappy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Mooney, unless I am hallucinating.... that's not what AJ wrote,,,,
> > > that's what you wrote. His pools are:
> > > You have Ironside as a 4 seed........not gonna happen
>
> > > A
> > > Revolver
> > > Truck Stop
> > > GOAT
> > > Pike
>
> > > B
> > > Ironside
> > > Jam
> > > Ring
> > > Madcow
>
> > > C
> > > Chain
> > > Johnny Bravo
> > > Madison
> > > Streetgang
>
> > > D
> > > Sockeye
> > > Doublewide
> > > Machine
> > > Bodhi
>
> > > On Oct 12, 10:12 pm, Mooney <patrickjmoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 12, 9:32 pm, keven <kevbofris...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Revolver, Truck, Ring, Pike
>
> > > > > Stupid: Really all three MA teams in the same pool.
>
> > > > i think the seeding found onhttp://ultfris.blogspot.com/2009/10/open-nationals-seeding s.html
> > > > are a little more reasonable and take into account more in depth
> > > > analysis of results and regional considerations (ie having pike, ring
> > > > and truck all in one pool)
>
> > > > A: Revolver, GOAT, Truck Stop, Pike
>
> > > > B: Chain, JAM, Ring, Madcow
>
> > > > C: Ironside, Doublewide, Madison, Streetgang
>
> > > > D: Sockeye, Bravo, Machine, Bodhi
>
> > hahah i didnt write that, i copied and pasted it and i dont think i
> > ever stated that i did write that though. i believe these are AJs
> > adjusted seeds from someone on Bravo, i just supported them along with
> > others
>
> > and according to what i C&P'd it has ironside as a #3 seed and i
> > believe the reasoning is there on the site.
>
> > wake up dude
>
> After everyone stops arguing, who will the semifinalists be?

Gosh, this is so exciting, I just can't wait to see who the
semifinalists will be!!!

And it will all be decided right here on r.s.d.!!! Sweet.
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