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What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #361] Wed, 24 September 2008 08:59 Go to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
While we are looking at electing new board members to the UPA, it
occurred to me that most of us (I'm guessing) really know almost
nothing about what the outgoing board members, whose terms are
expiring this year, have done.

Those members are:
Todd Demetriades (South Region)
Ricky Eikstadt (Central Region)
Theresa Weber (At-Large)
Henry Thorne (At-Large)

Of course, Henry Thorne is running for re-election this year, so he
might not technically be "outgoing" yet, but what do we know about
these folks? What have they done during their terms? Should we
continue their efforts or should we look for changes?

I'll do some research and post my findings, but hopefully others with
some knowledge of these board members can chime in. Henry has already
discussed some of his work in the thread about his candidate
statement. What about the rest?

Off hand, I know Todd Demetriades is an attorney and has helped out
with some legal work for the UPA, though I'll have to review the
previous meeting minutes for specific details. Ricky Eikstadt is the
current Treasurer, and Theresa Weber is the current Secretary. What
else do we know?
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #375 is a reply to message #361] Wed, 24 September 2008 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joe Seidler
Messages: 482
Registered: September 2008
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
On Sep 24, 8:59 am, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> While we are looking at electing new board members to the UPA, it
> occurred to me that most of us (I'm guessing) really know almost
> nothing about what the outgoing board members, whose terms are
> expiring this year, have done.
>
> Those members are:
> Todd Demetriades (South Region)
> Ricky Eikstadt (Central Region)
> Theresa Weber (At-Large)
> Henry Thorne (At-Large)
>
> Of course, Henry Thorne is running for re-election this year, so he
> might not technically be "outgoing" yet, but what do we know about
> these folks? What have they done during their terms? Should we
> continue their efforts or should we look for changes?
>
> I'll do some research and post my findings, but hopefully others with
> some knowledge of these board members can chime in. Henry has already
> discussed some of his work in the thread about his candidate
> statement. What about the rest?
>
> Off hand, I know Todd Demetriades is an attorney and has helped out
> with some legal work for the UPA, though I'll have to review the
> previous meeting minutes for specific details. Ricky Eikstadt is the
> current Treasurer, and Theresa Weber is the current Secretary. What
> else do we know?

This is a great service you are doing for the UPA membership (whether
they appreciate it or not ;) I suspect it may be difficult to find
out what each board member has done during his/her tenure. You might
consider submitting a proposal to the board that requires the board
publish once a year the voting records of each member.
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #423 is a reply to message #375] Wed, 24 September 2008 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 24, 2:14 pm, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
>
> This is a great service you are doing for the UPA membership (whether
> they appreciate it or not ;)  I suspect it may be difficult to find
> out what each board member has done during his/her tenure. You might
> consider submitting a proposal to the board that requires the board
> publish once a year the voting records of each member.

Thanks Joe.

Taking another quick glance at a couple of the past meeting minutes
(the 2008 meeting is still not posted 8 months later!), I agree that
certain details will be hard to come by. I like the idea of publishing
the voting records, although it appears as if the vast majority of the
votes at the annual meetings are unanimous or near-unanimous.

This brings up the question that I had implied in some of my candidate
analyses: what unique ideas will each candidate bring to the table?
It's hard to envision progress (or a "revolution") if everyone agrees
with each other on EVERYTHING and there is no debate, or at least any
boat-rocking.

I become more and more interested in the political processes of the
UPA the more I read and think about it... Hopefully I can come up with
some interesting research.
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #476 is a reply to message #423] Thu, 25 September 2008 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 1:49 am, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 24, 2:14 pm, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > This is a great service you are doing for the UPA membership (whether
> > they appreciate it or not ;)  I suspect it may be difficult to find
> > out what each board member has done during his/her tenure. You might
> > consider submitting a proposal to the board that requires the board
> > publish once a year the voting records of each member.
>
> Thanks Joe.
>
> Taking another quick glance at a couple of the past meeting minutes
> (the 2008 meeting is still not posted 8 months later!), I agree that
> certain details will be hard to come by. I like the idea of publishing
> the voting records, although it appears as if the vast majority of the
> votes at the annual meetings are unanimous or near-unanimous.
>
> This brings up the question that I had implied in some of my candidate
> analyses: what unique ideas will each candidate bring to the table?
> It's hard to envision progress (or a "revolution") if everyone agrees
> with each other on EVERYTHING and there is no debate, or at least any
> boat-rocking.
>
> I become more and more interested in the political processes of the
> UPA the more I read and think about it... Hopefully I can come up with
> some interesting research.

In the minutes I've looked at, it hasn't appeared that there have been
many boat-rocking proposals. They've all been kinda straightforward.
The minutes at least reflect some discussion and expression of
concerns by various board members, but it does not surprise me that on
a relatively tame issue, the Board is able to discuss and come to a
consensus. Sometimes there are motions to amend proposals, too.
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #479 is a reply to message #476] Thu, 25 September 2008 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
swillaholic
Messages: 78
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Sep 25, 1:07 pm, "colinmcint...@gmail.com"
<colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 25, 1:49 am, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 24, 2:14 pm, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
>
> > > This is a great service you are doing for the UPA membership (whether
> > > they appreciate it or not ;)  I suspect it may be difficult to find
> > > out what each board member has done during his/her tenure. You might
> > > consider submitting a proposal to the board that requires the board
> > > publish once a year the voting records of each member.
>
> > Thanks Joe.
>
> > Taking another quick glance at a couple of the past meeting minutes
> > (the 2008 meeting is still not posted 8 months later!), I agree that
> > certain details will be hard to come by. I like the idea of publishing
> > the voting records, although it appears as if the vast majority of the
> > votes at the annual meetings are unanimous or near-unanimous.
>
> > This brings up the question that I had implied in some of my candidate
> > analyses: what unique ideas will each candidate bring to the table?
> > It's hard to envision progress (or a "revolution") if everyone agrees
> > with each other on EVERYTHING and there is no debate, or at least any
> > boat-rocking.
>
> > I become more and more interested in the political processes of the
> > UPA the more I read and think about it... Hopefully I can come up with
> > some interesting research.
>
> In the minutes I've looked at, it hasn't appeared that there have been
> many boat-rocking proposals.  They've all been kinda straightforward.
> The minutes at least reflect some discussion and expression of
> concerns by various board members, but it does not surprise me that on
> a relatively tame issue, the Board is able to discuss and come to a
> consensus.  Sometimes there are motions to amend proposals, too.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

IMO, also worth mentioning.....it appears that of all the proposals
voted upon in the 2007 meeting, there was 1 dissenting vote for the
entire meeting.
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #483 is a reply to message #479] Thu, 25 September 2008 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frankie
Messages: 93
Registered: September 2008
Member
that sure says a lot...

<swillaholic@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5babd704-ab7f-49a0-ab35-fb62de73aa7b@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 25, 1:07 pm, "colinmcint...@gmail.com"
<colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 25, 1:49 am, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 24, 2:14 pm, Joe Seidler <j...@seidler.com> wrote:
>
> > > This is a great service you are doing for the UPA membership (whether
> > > they appreciate it or not ;) I suspect it may be difficult to find
> > > out what each board member has done during his/her tenure. You might
> > > consider submitting a proposal to the board that requires the board
> > > publish once a year the voting records of each member.
>
> > Thanks Joe.
>
> > Taking another quick glance at a couple of the past meeting minutes
> > (the 2008 meeting is still not posted 8 months later!), I agree that
> > certain details will be hard to come by. I like the idea of publishing
> > the voting records, although it appears as if the vast majority of the
> > votes at the annual meetings are unanimous or near-unanimous.
>
> > This brings up the question that I had implied in some of my candidate
> > analyses: what unique ideas will each candidate bring to the table?
> > It's hard to envision progress (or a "revolution") if everyone agrees
> > with each other on EVERYTHING and there is no debate, or at least any
> > boat-rocking.
>
> > I become more and more interested in the political processes of the
> > UPA the more I read and think about it... Hopefully I can come up with
> > some interesting research.
>
> In the minutes I've looked at, it hasn't appeared that there have been
> many boat-rocking proposals. They've all been kinda straightforward.
> The minutes at least reflect some discussion and expression of
> concerns by various board members, but it does not surprise me that on
> a relatively tame issue, the Board is able to discuss and come to a
> consensus. Sometimes there are motions to amend proposals, too.- Hide
> quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

IMO, also worth mentioning.....it appears that of all the proposals
voted upon in the 2007 meeting, there was 1 dissenting vote for the
entire meeting.
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #484 is a reply to message #479] Thu, 25 September 2008 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 12:17 pm, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> IMO, also worth mentioning.....it appears that of all the proposals
> voted upon in the 2007 meeting, there was 1 dissenting vote for the
> entire meeting.- Hide quoted text -
>

I'm not proposing arguing just for the sake of arguing, but it sure
would be refreshing to see some more diverse and unique ideas floating
around the board, along with some healthy debates. I want to see the
board members really challenging each other (or maybe they are and it
just isn't reported to us in these meeting notes).

Is anyone aware of any spirited debates coming out of UPA HQ?
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #507 is a reply to message #484] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
swillaholic
Messages: 78
Registered: September 2008
Member
> > IMO, also worth mentioning.....it appears that of all the proposals
> > voted upon in the 2007 meeting, there was 1 dissenting vote for the
> > entire meeting.- Hide quoted text -
>
> I'm not proposing arguing just for the sake of arguing, but it sure
> would be refreshing to see some more diverse and unique ideas floating
> around the board, along with some healthy debates. I want to see the
> board members really challenging each other (or maybe they are and it
> just isn't reported to us in these meeting notes).
>
> Is anyone aware of any spirited debates coming out of UPA HQ?

I agree, that 'simply arguing/disagreeing' for the sake of it, has
little value. For myself, I have difficulty accepting such
overwhelming unifomity of the votes.

In short, I find myself questioning the value of either the
representatives, or the proposals themselves...

On the matter of internal communications/debates, it is extremely
frustrating that UPA has taken a (un?)official stance of withholding
public comments made by elected/executive members.
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #508 is a reply to message #483] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MrPinto
Messages: 601
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 11:10 am, "Frankie" <billy_berrou(no_spam)@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

>> IMO, also worth mentioning.....it appears that of all the proposals
>> voted upon in the 2007 meeting, there was 1 dissenting vote for the
>> entire meeting.

> that sure says a lot...

Does near-unanimity necessarily imply homogeneous preferences, or just
a large amount of prior negotiation?
If the latter, why would not just negotiate with majority+1 players
rather than all?
Isn't a likely answer to the second question that the game is
iterated, anyone can propose things, and logrolling occurs?
What does this say about factions?

So, I guess what I'm saying is, this says *something*, but I'm not
sure that it's a *lot*, or even what it is. =)

~p
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #512 is a reply to message #507] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 3:21 pm, swillaho...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I agree, that 'simply arguing/disagreeing' for the sake of it, has
> little value.  For myself, I have difficulty accepting such
> overwhelming unifomity of the votes.
>
> In short, I find myself questioning the value of either the
> representatives, or the proposals themselves...
>
> On the matter of internal communications/debates, it is extremely
> frustrating that UPA has taken a (un?)official stance of withholding
> public comments made by elected/executive members.

I just sent an email to UPA HQ about the 2008 meeting minutes, asking
why they are not up. I think it would be nice to have info from the
most recent meeting to help us make the most informed voting decisions
for next year...
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #513 is a reply to message #508] Thu, 25 September 2008 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 3:25 pm, "MrPi...@gmail.com" <MrPi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does near-unanimity necessarily imply homogeneous preferences, or just
> a large amount of prior negotiation?

That's a good point, but something we obviously don't know about.
That's why I wondered if there had been any lively debates, maybe in
advance of the meetings or off the record before voting actually took
place. That would be interesting to hear about.

>
> So, I guess what I'm saying is, this says *something*, but I'm not
> sure that it's a *lot*, or even what it is.  =)
>

True...
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #519 is a reply to message #512] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
> I just sent an email to UPA HQ about the 2008 meeting minutes

Mike Payne just wrote back to tell me he is looking into getting the
2008 minutes up on the site. If the report gets posted, I look forward
to giving it a good read.

Mike is usually pretty responsive when sending him an email, btw. I
like that.
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #534 is a reply to message #519] Thu, 25 September 2008 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 4:04 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Mike Payne just wrote back to tell me he is looking into getting the
> 2008 minutes up on the site. If the report gets posted, I look forward
> to giving it a good read.
>

Update: Sandie Hammerly just notified me that the 2008 minutes are now
posted. I'll read through them soon.

Sandie told me that it was an oversight that they were not posted
earlier, and I was the first person to ask about them. We members need
to stay active as well! No one else had looked or asked for the
meeting minutes?!?!
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #557 is a reply to message #513] Thu, 25 September 2008 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Sep 25, 4:35 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 25, 3:25 pm, "MrPi...@gmail.com" <MrPi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Does near-unanimity necessarily imply homogeneous preferences, or just
> > a large amount of prior negotiation?
>
> That's a good point, but something we obviously don't know about.
> That's why I wondered if there had been any lively debates, maybe in
> advance of the meetings or off the record before voting actually took
> place. That would be interesting to hear about.

What are the issues that arose that you might have expected/hoped
would produce lively debate? I don't recall any big ones off the top
of my head, but there very well may have been.
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #561 is a reply to message #534] Thu, 25 September 2008 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Wait a minute, here. The UPA being sensitive to members' requests
submitted through the appropriate channels? It's remarkable what one
can accomplish with the UPA when one puts forth even the slightest
effort.

Bravo to Baer for providing one example of this. Bravo to me for
providing another (uncontested offensive foul at stall 9 does not
result in stall count resuming at "stallingten" -- an automatic
turnover). Bravo to Frank and Toad for . . . gigantic tomatoes?
Wait, no, just bravo to Baer and me. And Henry Thorne. And probably
others.

On Sep 25, 5:55 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sep 25, 4:04 pm, Baer <collin.b...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Mike Payne just wrote back to tell me he is looking into getting the
> > 2008 minutes up on the site. If the report gets posted, I look forward
> > to giving it a good read.
>
> Update: Sandie Hammerly just notified me that the 2008 minutes are now
> posted. I'll read through them soon.
>
> Sandie told me that it was an oversight that they were not posted
> earlier, and I was the first person to ask about them. We members need
> to stay active as well! No one else had looked or asked for the
> meeting minutes?!?!
Re: What do we know about the outgoing UPA Board Members? [message #2564 is a reply to message #519] Tue, 14 October 2008 18:05 Go to previous message
Baer
Messages: 387
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
I wanted to give an update on this topic since I've been away for so
long. As Seidler predicted, it was quite difficult to glean any
worthwhile information on the outgoing board members. I was actually
hoping to write up an article of substance and submit it to The Huddle
as part of their election coverage, but alas, I didn't find enough
material to be worthy of a quality article.

I reached out to Todd Demetriades, Theresa Weber, and Ricky Eikstadt
with questions, but did not get responses from any of them.

Scanning through previous board meeting minutes, it looks like Todd
Demetirades is one who will be missed, as he apparantly kept meetings
moving along more than others (if his motions to put topics to vote or
close certain discussions mean anything). Also, while he made at least
one statement that he was not a legal representative for the UPA, it
appears as if they looked to him quite a bit for his legal expertise.
Otherwise, the contributions of each of these board members are fairly
unknown. That doesn't mean that they didn't contribute, of course, but
their actual individual efforts are noted in any obvious record.
Indeed, when I asked about the lack of substance in the 2008 board
minutes, Sandie Hammerly told me that much of the discussion is not
noted in the meeting minutes (this was reflected by other board
members on RSD lately as well).

I was disappointed that I couldn't find more info. Some of the above
people had a few posts on RSD from years past, but nothing indicative
of their work on the board. Interestingly, Demetriades posted an
argument for refs in Ultimate back in 1998 that is remarkably similar
to what Toad and I (among others) have been saying on here for a while
(although TD was more eloquent).
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