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Masters Seeding [message #3232] Thu, 16 October 2008 13:02 Go to next message
Blksqrl
Messages: 9
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
Not to be outdone by the young'ns - let this be a starting point to
the raucous and divisive debate that will inevitably follow. Record
against other Masters teams in 2008, wins against 2008 Nationals
qualifiers, any Masters losses, 2007 finish or predecessor's finish
when applicable.

1. DoG - NE1 (10-2), Wins over OLD SAG and GLUM, Losses to OLD SAG
and A&B, 2007 Champs

2. Troubled Past - NW1 (6-0), Wins over Throwback, 2007 Semis

3. Surly - CN1 (5-1), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Loss to Old
Style, 2007 Finalist

4. Mileage - SO1 (5-0), Wins over ANEJO, 2007 Semis

5. OAITW - SW1 (13-1), Wins over DoubleBlack, Loss to DoubleBlack

6. O.L.D. S.A.G. - MA1 (9-1), Wins over DoG and Chesapeaked, Loss to
DoG

7. Old Style - CN2 (6-1), Win over Surly, Loss to Real Huck

8. DoubleBlack - SW2 (10-5), Win over OAITW, Losses to OAITW (4) and
Showpony

9. Throwback - NW2 (5-2), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Losses
to Troubled Past

10. ANEJO - SO2 (4-2), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Losses to
Mileage

11. Chesapeaked - MA2 (5-1), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Loss
to OLD SAG

12. GLUM - NE2 (5-2), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Losses to
DoG and A&B


Pete
OAITW #18
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3242 is a reply to message #3232] Thu, 16 October 2008 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jon Rayner
Messages: 6
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Oct 16, 4:02 pm, Blksqrl <blksqrl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Not to be outdone by the young'ns - let this be a starting point to
> the raucous and divisive debate that will inevitably follow. Record
> against other Masters teams in 2008, wins against 2008 Nationals
> qualifiers, any Masters losses, 2007 finish or predecessor's finish
> when applicable.
>
> 1. DoG - NE1 (10-2), Wins over OLD SAG and GLUM, Losses to OLD SAG
> and A&B, 2007 Champs
>
> 2. Troubled Past - NW1 (6-0), Wins over Throwback, 2007 Semis
>
> 3. Surly - CN1 (5-1), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Loss to Old
> Style, 2007 Finalist
>
> 4. Mileage - SO1 (5-0), Wins over ANEJO, 2007 Semis
>
> 5. OAITW - SW1 (13-1), Wins over DoubleBlack, Loss to DoubleBlack
>
> 6. O.L.D. S.A.G. - MA1 (9-1), Wins over DoG and Chesapeaked, Loss to
> DoG
>
> 7. Old Style - CN2 (6-1), Win over Surly, Loss to Real Huck
>
> 8. DoubleBlack - SW2 (10-5), Win over OAITW, Losses to OAITW (4) and
> Showpony
>
> 9. Throwback - NW2 (5-2), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Losses
> to Troubled Past
>
> 10. ANEJO - SO2 (4-2), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Losses to
> Mileage
>
> 11. Chesapeaked - MA2 (5-1), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Loss
> to OLD SAG
>
> 12. GLUM - NE2 (5-2), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Losses to
> DoG and A&B
>
> Pete
> OAITW #18

GLUM's previous finishes at UPAs:
9th in 2003
5th in 2004
5th in 2006
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3364 is a reply to message #3232] Fri, 17 October 2008 05:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Army
Messages: 14
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
The biggest disappointment is there are no Old Style distributors in
Florida!
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3405 is a reply to message #3364] Fri, 17 October 2008 08:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blksqrl
Messages: 9
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Oct 17, 6:43 am, Army <jarme...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The biggest disappointment is there are no Old Style distributors in
> Florida!

I have first-hand evidence that you can stack three kegs (one tapped)
in the shower of your run-of-the-mill budget RV. Although, the gas-
mileage is a killer.
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3419 is a reply to message #3405] Fri, 17 October 2008 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Keith.Larsen.TX
Messages: 41
Registered: September 2008
Member
I disagree with you top 4. Troubled Past has their seeding justified
by a win over the #2 team in their Region. They lost head-to-head to
Mileage at Nationals last year then finished tied for 3rd. Mileage
went 1-1 against Surly at Nationals last year so why is this not:

1. DoG
2. Surly
3. Mileage
4. Troubled Past

If I were on Mileage I would rather have your seeding though... that
gives them Surly in pool play and they don't have to see DoG until
Finals... which is my prediction:
Mileage over DoG in finals this year.

-Keith
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3434 is a reply to message #3405] Fri, 17 October 2008 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Army
Messages: 14
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
>
> I have first-hand evidence that you can stack three kegs (one tapped)
> in the shower of your run-of-the-mill budget RV.  Although, the gas-
> mileage is a killer.


Problem is we are all flying! How many kegs will they take in baggage
claim and what is the upcharge?
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3439 is a reply to message #3434] Fri, 17 October 2008 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Duchamanos
Messages: 52
Registered: September 2008
Member
Fly Southwest, first and second checked Keg are free! No fee for
aisle or window keg, either.
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3446 is a reply to message #3439] Fri, 17 October 2008 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Who cares about masters seeding? Jeez. Like anyone is even going to
be watching this division. The party's over, guys. You're fat, slow
and wrinkled. Just show up and play and don't worry about seeding.
Winning this division is like winning a dog show by not pooping on the
show floor.
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3449 is a reply to message #3419] Fri, 17 October 2008 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blksqrl
Messages: 9
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Oct 17, 10:11 am, Keith.Larsen...@gmail.com wrote:
> I disagree with you top 4. Troubled Past has their seeding justified
> by a win over the #2 team in their Region. They lost head-to-head to
> Mileage at Nationals last year then finished tied for 3rd. Mileage
> went 1-1 against Surly at Nationals last year so why is this not:
>
> 1. DoG
> 2. Surly
> 3. Mileage
> 4. Troubled Past
>
> If I were on Mileage I would rather have your seeding though... that
> gives them Surly in pool play and they don't have to see DoG until
> Finals... which is my prediction:
> Mileage over DoG in finals this year.
>
> -Keith

I was putting slightly greater weight on results from this year (e.g.
Surly's loss at regionals to Old Style) relative to last year's
nationals results. The exception to that standard, however, is that
even with a loss this year DoG remains "the team to beat" in most
people's minds. Mileage vs. Troubled Past, though, I probably
undervalued last years results. So Mileage #2 and Troubled Past #4
may be an acceptible compromise.

Pete
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3450 is a reply to message #3446] Fri, 17 October 2008 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blksqrl
Messages: 9
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Oct 17, 11:32 am, jacob <jacobsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Who cares about masters seeding? Jeez.  Like anyone is even going to
> be watching this division.  The party's over, guys.  You're fat, slow
> and wrinkled.  Just show up and play and don't worry about seeding.
> Winning this division is like winning a dog show by not pooping on the
> show floor.

Gotta have something to talk about. Matlock doesn't start for like
fifteen minutes.
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3458 is a reply to message #3450] Fri, 17 October 2008 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Sorry, I'm not wearing my hearing aid. Can you please speak up?
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3460 is a reply to message #3458] Fri, 17 October 2008 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Blksqrl
Messages: 9
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Oct 17, 12:28 pm, jacob <jacobsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, I'm not wearing my hearing aid.  Can you please speak up?

Oh sure. Sorry about tha...
I SAID, SORRY ABOUT THAT!
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3497 is a reply to message #3449] Fri, 17 October 2008 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pepe
Messages: 2
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
On Oct 17, 12:38 pm, Blksqrl <blksqrl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 17, 10:11 am, Keith.Larsen...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I disagree with you top 4. Troubled Past has their seeding justified
> > by a win over the #2 team in their Region. They lost head-to-head to
> > Mileage at Nationals last year then finished tied for 3rd. Mileage
> > went 1-1 against Surly at Nationals last year so why is this not:
>
> > 1. DoG
> > 2. Surly
> > 3. Mileage
> > 4. Troubled Past
>
> > If I were on Mileage I would rather have your seeding though... that
> > gives them Surly in pool play and they don't have to see DoG until
> > Finals... which is my prediction:
> > Mileage over DoG in finals this year.
>
> > -Keith
>
> I was putting slightly greater weight on results from this year (e.g.
> Surly's loss at regionals to Old Style) relative to last year's
> nationals results.  The exception to that standard, however, is that
> even with a loss this year DoG remains "the team to beat" in most
> people's minds.  Mileage vs. Troubled Past, though, I probably
> undervalued last years results.  So Mileage #2 and Troubled Past #4
> may be an acceptible compromise.
>
> Pete

Surly did beat Old Style in the 2008 Chicago Heavy Weights
Championships 15-6. Both teams played as "open teams," probably not
the same rosters but you may want to take than into account. I agree
with Keith on the top four.
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3515 is a reply to message #3497] Fri, 17 October 2008 16:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bt
Messages: 10
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
masters is next to impossible to seed, what with rampant sandbagging
and the relative conditioning/lack thereof of the former studs now out
to pasture. that said, i like pete's first list, at least in terms of
1-12 regardless of where they come from. however, we really should
keep regional rivals in separate pools, else we get all crotchety and
beat our overly familiar rivals with our walkers. pete's list has too
many same-region games, if the traditional snake is applied. i'll
leave it to somebody else to do the brainwork here for a better
solution, i've got to go change my depends.

bt
doubleblack #96
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3552 is a reply to message #3446] Fri, 17 October 2008 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Getty
Messages: 13
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
Spoken like someone who has been there, won that. Unfortunately, I
can't argue against your premise. Now, pass me my teeth.

-- Getty


On Oct 17, 10:32 am, jacob <jacobsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Who cares about masters seeding? Jeez.  Like anyone is even going to
> be watching this division.  The party's over, guys.  You're fat, slow
> and wrinkled.  Just show up and play and don't worry about seeding.
> Winning this division is like winning a dog show by not pooping on the
> show floor.
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3559 is a reply to message #3232] Sat, 18 October 2008 02:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
matty j
Messages: 250
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
On Oct 16, 4:02 pm, Blksqrl <blksqrl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Not to be outdone by the young'ns - let this be a starting point to
> the raucous and divisive debate that will inevitably follow.  Record
> against other Masters teams in 2008, wins against 2008 Nationals
> qualifiers, any Masters losses, 2007 finish or predecessor's finish
> when applicable.
>
> 1.  DoG - NE1 (10-2), Wins over OLD SAG and GLUM, Losses to OLD SAG
> and A&B, 2007 Champs
>
> 2.  Troubled Past - NW1 (6-0), Wins over Throwback, 2007 Semis
>
> 3.  Surly - CN1 (5-1), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Loss to Old
> Style, 2007 Finalist
>
> 4.  Mileage - SO1 (5-0), Wins over ANEJO, 2007 Semis
>
> 5.  OAITW - SW1 (13-1), Wins over DoubleBlack, Loss to DoubleBlack
>
> 6.  O.L.D. S.A.G. - MA1 (9-1), Wins over DoG and Chesapeaked, Loss to
> DoG
>
> 7.  Old Style - CN2 (6-1), Win over Surly, Loss to Real Huck
>
> 8. DoubleBlack - SW2 (10-5), Win over OAITW, Losses to OAITW (4) and
> Showpony
>
> 9.  Throwback - NW2 (5-2), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Losses
> to Troubled Past
>
> 10. ANEJO - SO2 (4-2), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Losses to
> Mileage
>
> 11.  Chesapeaked - MA2 (5-1), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Loss
> to OLD SAG
>
> 12. GLUM - NE2 (5-2), No wins in 2008 against qualifiers, Losses to
> DoG and A&B
>
> Pete
> OAITW #18

GLUM should be higher based on the closeness of it's games with DOG.
They are pretty legit. the loss to a very strong A&B team was a 1
point barnburner which featured about 5 incredible diving blocks on
universe point by both teams.
Also philly should be a notch higher based on regional champ, and last
year's finish at natties.
or was that the year before?

MJ
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3560 is a reply to message #3446] Sat, 18 October 2008 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
matty j
Messages: 250
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
On Oct 17, 1:32 pm, jacob <jacobsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Who cares about masters seeding? Jeez.  Like anyone is even going to
> be watching this division.  The party's over, guys.  You're fat, slow
> and wrinkled.  Just show up and play and don't worry about seeding.
> Winning this division is like winning a dog show by not pooping on the
> show floor.
wait until you see the grandmasters.
even less to care about (until you are actually over 40 and young uns
are telling you that you shouldn't be allowed to put on cleats
anymore)
in fact we will encourage people to come watch us at nationals by
allowing you to purchase paint guns and random vegetables, then win
prizes for hitting GM's while they are playing.
there will also be a humbling competition that you can enter, it's
called "try and cover Matty J". we'll see if you do better than the 20
somethings at Westchester Summer League.

crochety old zontal
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3567 is a reply to message #3560] Sat, 18 October 2008 08:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
"wait until you see the grandmasters."

I won't be seeing it, thanks.

"even less to care about (until you are actually over 40 and young uns
are telling you that you shouldn't be allowed to put on cleats
anymore)"

I'm not telling anyone not to put cleats on, nor would I ever do so.
I'm just saying: don't bother analyzing seeding in divisions that
don't matter.

"in fact we will encourage people to come watch us at nationals by
allowing you to purchase paint guns and random vegetables, then win
prizes for hitting GM's while they are playing."

Sounds like a waste of paint and vegetables.

"there will also be a humbling competition that you can enter, it's
called 'try and cover Matty J'. we'll see if you do better than the 20
somethings at Westchester Summer League."

Yeah, well, the Westchester league isn't exactly the hotbed of talent
it used to be. Can you get open on the kids playing in Flushing
Meadow?

"crochety old zontal"

You mean: Crochety middle-aged Zontal.
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3576 is a reply to message #3567] Sat, 18 October 2008 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bt
Messages: 10
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
> I'm not telling anyone not to put cleats on, nor would I ever do so.
> I'm just saying: don't bother analyzing seeding in divisions that
> don't matter.

Jacob makes a good point. Instead of pools and games, masters should
just stage a funeral at masters, laying to rest our ultimate careers
once and for all.
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3579 is a reply to message #3567] Sat, 18 October 2008 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bt
Messages: 10
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
> I'm not telling anyone not to put cleats on, nor would I ever do so.
> I'm just saying: don't bother analyzing seeding in divisions that
> don't matter.

Jacob makes a good point. Instead of pools and games, masters players
should
just stage a funeral at nationals, laying to rest our ultimate careers
once and for all.
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3652 is a reply to message #3579] Sun, 19 October 2008 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
plasticdisc
Messages: 2
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
For those of you who forgot the results from Nationals last year:

The A pool was surprisingly dominant.

After pool play was completed, all the teams from the A pool advanced
in the bracket play and ended up 1-2-3-4 in the final results.

Team #5 from the A pool rolled through the lower placement bracket for
9th place. There was reasonable speculation that they would have
placed higher if seeding was better or if the tounament format allowed
for it.

Seeding does matter!
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3659 is a reply to message #3652] Sun, 19 October 2008 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
formerhiriser
Messages: 5
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
That 5th place team was Boneyard and the 4th place team from B pool
was OLDSAG, who beat Boneyard at their Regionals, so I don't think
that is a reasonable expectation in this case. Also, 2 of those
quarter-finals were 2 point games, much closer than Boneyard's scores
against the top 4 in pool A, except their win against Mileage in the
final round after Mileage had clinched a quaterfinal spot.

On Oct 19, 9:38 pm, plasticd...@gmail.com wrote:
> For those of you who forgot the results from Nationals last year:
>
> The A pool was surprisingly dominant.
>
> After pool play was completed, all the teams from the A pool advanced
> in the bracket play and ended up 1-2-3-4 in the final results.
>
> Team #5 from the A pool rolled through the lower placement bracket for
> 9th place.  There was reasonable speculation that they would have
> placed higher if seeding was better or if the tounament format allowed
> for it.
>
> Seeding does matter!
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3673 is a reply to message #3659] Mon, 20 October 2008 07:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eatingspicynoodles
Messages: 2
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
I think we should consider a very high seed for old style and I'll
tell you why...

So I was in Korea, just outside Xian. We were surrounded by Japs. They
were everywhere. Henry Truman comes into the bar I was working at and
ordered a mint julip. That wasn't her favorite drink so I asked her
what was wrong. She said that since the cancellation of gunsmoke war
had been going in a bad way. I didn't know what to say so I just
brought his bags to his room and turned the telephone on. Then they
started shooting! I hadn't even finished writing the letter to my
darling! Would she ever know I was thinking about her under fire in
this rotten desert! Who are you and how did you get in my house.
Zzzzzzzzzzz...
Re: Masters Seeding [message #3757 is a reply to message #3673] Mon, 20 October 2008 16:18 Go to previous message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Wake up, Matlock will be on in a few minutes.
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