Forum Search:
RSD No Spam
rec.sport.disc without the spam


Home » RSD » RSD Posts » Huck Finn format
Huck Finn format [message #17204] Tue, 31 March 2009 19:39 Go to next message
Naji
Messages: 100
Registered: November 2008
Senior Member
So Huck Finn emailed captains, and instead of pool play and brackets,
they scheduled 6 games and then you play someone of even level based
on performance.

I think this is the absolute worst way to run a tournament of this
size. For my school, like many others, we joined this tournament for a
chance to play the cream of the crop, and now there is absolutely no
way for this to happen. What a shame for us to pay that much money and
not get that chance.

What happened to the regular tournament format Cultimate? Cmon!
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17205 is a reply to message #17204] Tue, 31 March 2009 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Caleb
Messages: 52
Registered: September 2008
Member
Although there is nothing we can do now but prove them wrong, it is
pretty sad that my team has beat 5 of the teams this year we are
scheduled to play. The 6th team we haven't played yet this year. I
feel your pain.

-Caleb
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17207 is a reply to message #17204] Tue, 31 March 2009 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bww
Messages: 39
Registered: October 2008
Member
im not shocked that cultimate would try to keep competition closed to
what they think the elite competition is, they did this with C1. They
also have demonstrated that they wont go the extra mile (or foot) and
display a format on the UPA website, or their own (much less do so
more than 4 days before the tournament). they ruined centex for
profit. they've refused to add all the scores from their
tournaments. they're intentionally trying to show that the season
doesnt matter by having tournaments that have placement games that
dont really make sense, nor are they having bracket play that produces
real winners.

fuck cultimate.

bww
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17217 is a reply to message #17205] Wed, 01 April 2009 04:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Branick
Messages: 127
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 31, 11:40 pm, Captain Crunch <CalebSta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Although there is nothing we can do now but prove them wrong, it is
> pretty sad that my team has beat 5 of the teams this year we are
> scheduled to play.  The 6th team we haven't played yet this year.  I
> feel your pain.
>
> -Caleb

Anyone care to post the schedule (or a link to the document) for those
of us who are not going to be in attendance?

Dave
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17228 is a reply to message #17217] Wed, 01 April 2009 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trhaynes
Messages: 8
Registered: March 2009
Junior Member
Showcase games:

>Saturday
>
>Rd 1 (9:00am)
>#3 Colorado vs. #7 Notre Dame
>Big Ten #6 Wisconsin vs. Iowa
>
>Rd 2 (11:00am)
>#1 Florida vs. #3 Colorado
>Big Ten #6 Wisconsin vs. Illinois, Michigan State vs. Northwestern
>
>Rd 3 (1:00pm)
>#6 Wisconsin vs. Georgia
>Big Ten #15 Michigan vs. Purdue, Illinois vs. Iowa
>
>Rd 4 (3:00pm)
>#3 Colorado vs. Georgia
>Big Ten #15 Michigan vs. Illinois, Iowa vs. Northwestern
>
>Rd 5 (5:00pm)
>#1 Florida vs. #6 Wisconsin
>#7 Notre Dame vs. #15 Michigan
>Big Ten Indiana vs. Northwestern, Michigan State vs. Purdue
>
>Sunday
>
>Rd 1 (8:30am)
>Big Ten #15 Michigan vs. Iowa, Michigan State vs. Indiana
>
>Rd 2 (10:30am)
>Big Ten Northwestern vs. Purdue
>
>Rd 3 (12:30pm)
>#1 Florida vs. Georgia
>Big Ten #6 Wisconsin vs. #15 Michigan, Illinois vs. Indiana
>
>Rd 4 (2:30pm) Placement Games
>
>Rd 5 (3pm) Huck Finn Championship Game
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17271 is a reply to message #17217] Wed, 01 April 2009 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peteoverright
Messages: 19
Registered: February 2009
Junior Member
here's a copy of the email: http://easycatcheseasythrows.blogspot.com/2009/03/huck-finn- schedule.html

basically how i understand it is each team plays 6 games against teams
that are of similar ability, and then the championship game is decided
based on the teams with the best records...so the two teams with the
best record goes to the final (and if there are multiple undefeated
teams there are tiebreakers). this doesn't make any sense at all
considering the top 25 teams all play each other, and so on. it seems
like there could be a situation where a B team goes undefeated playing
all other B teams, has a better record than the top 25 teams (who
maybe lost 1 game to another top 25 team), and then the B team could
go to the final. maybe i understand it wrong, but that doesn't make
any sense to me.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17273 is a reply to message #17271] Wed, 01 April 2009 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peteoverright
Messages: 19
Registered: February 2009
Junior Member
after reading it again, there is a game in between the 6 games and the
placement games, so that 6-0 teams play other 6-0 teams, 5-1 plays
other 5-1 and so on, which helps even it out a little bit...but i
still think worse teams could place high in the tournament because
they play easier schedules in the first 6 games.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17283 is a reply to message #17273] Wed, 01 April 2009 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gosieg
Messages: 15
Registered: October 2008
Junior Member
Does it really do your team any good to be crushed by Florida or
Colorado? I know they don't appreciate having to drive/fly a long way
just to beat someone 13-3.

Cultimate's intention is to give teams competitive games.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17285 is a reply to message #17283] Wed, 01 April 2009 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wabartenstein
Messages: 143
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Apr 1, 7:27 pm, gos...@gmail.com wrote:
> Does it really do your team any good to be crushed by Florida or
> Colorado? I know they don't appreciate having to drive/fly a long way
> just to beat someone 13-3.
>
> Cultimate's intention is to give teams competitive games.

and they charge an arm and a leg for it...

but the upa's doing the same thing with the "Restructuring" You'll
only play teams of similar caliber. I'm not saying this is good or bad
because I can't decide. Exciting upsets definitely won't happen again.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17287 is a reply to message #17285] Wed, 01 April 2009 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ryan Thompson
Messages: 364
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Apr 1, 5:47 pm, Austin <wabartenst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 1, 7:27 pm, gos...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Does it really do your team any good to be crushed by Florida or
> > Colorado? I know they don't appreciate having to drive/fly a long way
> > just to beat someone 13-3.
>
> > Cultimate's intention is to give teams competitive games.
>
> and they charge an arm and a leg for  it...
>
> but the upa's doing the same thing with the "Restructuring" You'll
> only play teams of similar caliber. I'm not saying this is good or bad
> because I can't decide. Exciting upsets definitely won't happen again.

Look at how many losses all of the top teams have! There are tons of
upsets this year.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17288 is a reply to message #17283] Wed, 01 April 2009 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Caleb
Messages: 52
Registered: September 2008
Member
Maybe I read it wrong then, but the way I see it is that we are the
8th seeded team in out group. If we win our first six games we would
be "undefeated" but would have to play a crossover game with the other
group with a team with similar record or seeding. This game is
scheduled at 2:30 (Round 4) and the championship is at 3:00 so I don't
think we have a chance to make it into the championship game. Now the
best team we play according to group 2 seedings is the 6 seed in our
group which makes me think the best team we could play in the
crossover (Round 4 on Sunday) is the six seed in group 1.

I understand Cultimate's intentions but I don't feel like our team is
seeded correctly and I would like a slim chance at the championship
game or at least some big team.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17289 is a reply to message #17288] Wed, 01 April 2009 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ryan Thompson
Messages: 364
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Apr 1, 6:13 pm, Captain Crunch <CalebSta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe I read it wrong then, but the way I see it is that we are the
> 8th seeded team in out group.  If we win our first six games we would
> be "undefeated" but would have to play a crossover game with the other
> group with a team with similar record or seeding.  This game is
> scheduled at 2:30 (Round 4) and the championship is at 3:00 so I don't
> think we have a chance to make it into the championship game.  Now the
> best team we play according to group 2 seedings is the 6 seed in our
> group which makes me think the best team we could play in the
> crossover (Round 4 on Sunday) is the six seed in group 1.
>
> I understand Cultimate's intentions but I don't feel like our team is
> seeded correctly and I would like a slim chance at the championship
> game or at least some big team.

Round 4 and Round 5 are really the same round, it's just a staggered
start.

If you go 6-0, you will be have a shot at the championship, depending
on everyone else's record and point diff, if there are > 2 teams at
6-0.

If you go 5-1 and there are 2 6-0 teams, you will probably finish 2nd
or 3rd in your "group" and play the 2nd or 3rd team in the other
group.

Each team has the chance to make finals or finish last. Every game and
every point counts, because there will be lots of point diff
tiebreakers.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17290 is a reply to message #17289] Wed, 01 April 2009 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Caleb
Messages: 52
Registered: September 2008
Member
Group 1 Florida, Colorado, Georgia, Washington University, Indiana,
Michigan State, Northwestern, Missouri, Missouri State, Marquette,
Illinois Chicago, Kalamazoo, Southern Illinois, Western Illinois,
Washington University-B, Illinois Chicago-B, Iowa-B, Northwestern-B,
Notre Dame-B, SLUH

Group 2 Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Michigan, Illinois, Iowa, Purdue,
Kansas, Truman State, Missouri S&T, Illinois St, DePaul, Western
Michigan, Loyola Chicago, St. Louis, St. Louis-B, Illinois State-D,
Kansas-B, Illinois-B, Wisconsin-B, Desmet Jesuit

We play a 6, 7, 10, 11, 13, and 13 seed in group 1 and 2. If seedings
held, Wisconsin. We would then be in a tie breaker...

Tiebreakers are decided as follows:
1) Head-To-Head

2) Record Against Teams with Same Record (ie, if five teams are tied
with one loss, the team with the best record against those five teams
will advance to the Huck Finn Championship Game)

3) Overall Point Differential (In All Games Played)

It is very possible to have a better point differential than Wisconsin
because we played lower seeded teams. This wouldn't be fair to them.

Are you sure that is how it works? I'm not trying to argue, just
trying to understand it.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17291 is a reply to message #17290] Wed, 01 April 2009 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Caleb
Messages: 52
Registered: September 2008
Member
I obviously don't proofread. I meant "If seedings held, Wisconsin
would be 6-0"
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17292 is a reply to message #17290] Wed, 01 April 2009 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Caleb
Messages: 52
Registered: September 2008
Member
I obviously don't proofread. I guess if seeding held Florida would be
the one seed and we would be in the championships game with them?
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17293 is a reply to message #17204] Wed, 01 April 2009 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> So Huck Finn emailed captains, and instead of pool play and brackets,
> they scheduled 6 games and then you play someone of even level based
> on performance.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---that's a queer format.
a bunch of games.....and then another game?
THAT'S a tournament???????

look.....when you guys want to compete at a tournament...a real
tournament with a real format...come to Wilmington NC.
come to a tournament hosted by me!
we'll always cram as many games as we can into one weekend....
BUT...rather than using some bullshit format to try to provide games
against similarly skilled teams.....we'll set up pools, and then have
elimination brackets and consolation brackets that creates matchups
against similarly skilled teams.

there will be a champion crowned thru brackets.
there will be games against comperably skilled teams thru consolation
brackets....
and everyone will get plenty of games.

no elimination brackets????
that's crazy talk.

or....that's what america is coming to.
no competition.
no winners...no losers.
no champion...no non-champions.
no one will leave feeling that they did worse or better than anyone
else....
soon...won't even be keeping score i guess.....
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17295 is a reply to message #17204] Wed, 01 April 2009 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
we joined this tournament for a
> chance to play the cream of the crop, and now there is absolutely no
> way for this to happen. What a shame for us to pay that much money and
> not get that chance.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

----don't go.
ask for your money back.
plan NOT to go to those tournaments next year.

i plan to host a couple of fall tournaments...and several spring
tournaments next year here in Wilmington.
small events...cozy...tons of games...champions crowned.

and...if there's anyone that wants to host the best college tournament
of the year, either in the fall, or next
spring....Collegiates.....contact me directly!
8 fields and lights...
16 teams....8 games for 8 teams and 9 games for the other 8....
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17296 is a reply to message #17283] Wed, 01 April 2009 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> Does it really do your team any good to be crushed by Florida or
> Colorado? I know they don't appreciate having to drive/fly a long way
> just to beat someone 13-3.


-----is that another option for a Cultimate format?
......to give a team ONE game after driving or flying a 'long way'????
that's even worse!
BUT...does it do a team any good to get crushed????...hell yes it
does!
haven't you ever heard the old quote...."the only way to improve is to
play teams that are better than yours"?????

UNC has played a whole bunch of different teams on the basketball
court this year....each, i'm sure, assisted in their goal to reach the
final four....and i bet that the lesser teams that played them this
season, certainly learned a thing or two while getting beat.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Cultimate's intention is to give teams competitive games.


---that's what every tournament does.
but not every team is on the same level.
someone's gonna win...someone's gonna lose.

let the ground tell it.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17297 is a reply to message #17293] Wed, 01 April 2009 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wabartenstein
Messages: 143
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
> there will be a champion crowned thru brackets.
> there will be games against comperably skilled teams thru consolation
> brackets....
> and everyone will get plenty of games.


He's got a point there. The only NC tournament I've ever been to (Fall
Collegiates 07) had the most possible games with nine. We played seven
because we sucked. Granted it did have a lot of North Carolina teams,
and that's never fun, but it was great comp with a ballin format.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17305 is a reply to message #17297] Wed, 01 April 2009 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Dick Formerly Kno
Messages: 189
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
As intriguing as discussions about north carolina tournament formats
are... back on topic, that being this weekend in St. Louis. Is our
understanding that any undefeated team theoretically has a shot at the
championship true?

Is it plausible that 2 B teams make the championship because all the
"elite level" c1 teams take each other down? Similarly, is it
plausible that Truman St, whose "hardest" game is 6-seed Purdue, makes
the championship, even though they haven't played any elite level
teams prior to the finals? Plausible, for my team's sake, I hope so.
Fair, I think not at all.

Or, is it possible that since we don't play any high level teams (thus
acting as a penalty), on the off-chance we do go undefeated in our
prelim rounds, that we win our placement game (which is not finals
since we're not a c1 team), go undefeated on the weekend, but end up
no higher than 7th or 8th? That's obviously not fair either.

I'm not trying to attack or persuade, just understand.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17313 is a reply to message #17305] Wed, 01 April 2009 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Naji
Messages: 100
Registered: November 2008
Senior Member
Well run and the most successful tournaments ALL have pools and then
bracket play. In such tournaments with elite teams, there are power
pools to exclude them destroying far easier teams. With pool play,
teams still get a chance to play other teams their skill level and an
equal chance at the championship. The lower teams have to fight to
play against the elite, which is definitely ok.

Why would you decide to change this all Cultimate, WHY?!?
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17316 is a reply to message #17305] Wed, 01 April 2009 22:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clrydin
Messages: 30
Registered: October 2008
Member
>
> Or, is it possible that since we don't play any high level teams (thus
> acting as a penalty), on the off-chance we do go undefeated in our
> prelim rounds, that we win our placement game (which is not finals
> since we're not a c1 team), go undefeated on the weekend, but end up
> no higher than 7th or 8th?  That's obviously not fair either.

No, this is set-up exactly the same as Centex and there is absolutely
no penalty to having an easy schedule. Two B-teams that go 6-0
against other B-teams could possibly play in the championship game and
win the tournament.

More than anything, I believe the set up of this tournament is to
prepare the elite level teams for nationals. They do this by placing
the elite teams against eachother round-after-round. Example:
Carleton went 5-1 (losing by 1 point I think) against Mich, Texas,
UNC, Oregon, Harvard, and Cal. I'm pretty certain they didnt finish
any higher than 7th, a rough finishing position, but they got a bunch
of great difficult games to prepare them for the series (the important
stuff).

The final round will often not set up equal match-ups as an elite team
could easily go 1-5 and end up playing a B-team with the same record.
Your placement/position at the end of these tournaments is fairly
pointless (outside of the champs...usually), what really matters is
your record and who you beat.

Anybody can come play in the championship game, and an elite team
could easily play in the last place game if they have a bad weekend.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17318 is a reply to message #17316] Wed, 01 April 2009 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Caleb
Messages: 52
Registered: September 2008
Member
Thanks for the explanation. That makes a bit more sense.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17323 is a reply to message #17297] Thu, 02 April 2009 03:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> He's got a point there. The only NC tournament I've ever been to (Fall
> Collegiates 07) but it was great comp with a ballin format.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---"ballin" format?
ok.
i prefer...'best format in college ultimate'
but...ballin is fine.

the Collegiates format is the best.....
who wants to host?
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17324 is a reply to message #17316] Thu, 02 April 2009 03:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> More than anything, I believe the set up of this tournament is to
> prepare the elite level teams for nationals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---elite teams...........prepare THEMSELVES for nationals.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17334 is a reply to message #17324] Thu, 02 April 2009 06:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clrydin
Messages: 30
Registered: October 2008
Member
>
> ---elite teams...........prepare THEMSELVES for nationals.

Yes and No, if Carleton, Florida, and Colorado didnt play in a
tournament all year, they would likely still make it to nationals
based on talent but I dont think they would have a shot winning.
Players need that experience throughout the year to learn how to win
the big games... in my opinion, there is no substitute for tournament
experience, a young player can learn so much in a weekend. The teams
learn what they need to work on as well and take that back to practice
and fine-tune everything.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17341 is a reply to message #17334] Thu, 02 April 2009 07:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
peteoverright
Messages: 19
Registered: February 2009
Junior Member
"Your placement at the end is fairly pointless"

So your goal is to have teams play a bunch of games against teams with
similar skill, not to have an actual tournament. That means it's kind
of pointless to give us places and have a finals match, doesn't it?
It's confusing because people are used to a tournament where standings
are important.

Are the elite teams' schedules in this format really that much
different than a normal tournament with power pools? Or why not just
have a division for elite teams and a division for the other teams and
give them both tournaments with a real champion?
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17347 is a reply to message #17324] Thu, 02 April 2009 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
theodore.macdonald
Messages: 34
Registered: March 2009
Member
mike g-
out of curiosity, would these tournaments you host have observers?
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17348 is a reply to message #17290] Thu, 02 April 2009 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Don Steg
Messages: 4
Registered: January 2009
Junior Member
On Apr 1, 7:47 pm, Captain Crunch <CalebSta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tiebreakers are decided as follows:
> 1) Head-To-Head
>
> 2) Record Against Teams with Same Record (ie, if five teams are tied
> with one loss, the team with the best record against those five teams
> will advance to the Huck Finn Championship Game)
>
> 3) Overall Point Differential (In All Games Played)

POINT DIFFERENTIAL IN ALL GAMES PLAYED????

Double-u. Tee. Eff.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17350 is a reply to message #17341] Thu, 02 April 2009 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Naji
Messages: 100
Registered: November 2008
Senior Member
and why should non-cultimate teams pay that much money to not even get
a chance at the elite? It's a ridiculous waste of money....
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17363 is a reply to message #17350] Thu, 02 April 2009 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdbenda
Messages: 15
Registered: December 2008
Junior Member
I think some of us need to put things in perspective here. Most of our
teams have no real shot at winning the championship.

We pay to play good games. We pay to play in a well run tournament,
and we pay to see some elite games, and hopefully get a game or two
against them.

I have no qualms with our schedule (SIU) because we are seeded 13th in
our pool. 5 of our games are against teams with much higher RRIs, so
we're getting good games. We were never playing with a guise that we
might win the tournament. Instead we're hoping to beat one or two
teams and keep in mind that this can raise our sectionals seed.

Where the tournament falters however, is with the middle to top seeded
teams. For instance. Truman State at #8 is locked out of all the power
pool games because Cultimate likes to keep their top teams playing
each other (In essence creating a separate tournament with top teams
and one with everybody else).

The problem with this is that its misleading. Teams trying to make the
jump from good team to elite team see those elite teams attending and
hope to get a shot at them, when the format doesn't really allow it.
Pool play would at least guarantee these teams one or two shots at a
higher team. I believe the 6-8 seeded teams get shafted, being a top
seed in a lower tournament

I think the best way to avoid top teams crushing everyone in pool play
while allowing fringe elite teams to get a shot is make small (3-team
power pools) have a crossover and then re-seed. Tally Classic ran it
this way and it kept pools small, but the upward/downward mobility of
teams was very good.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17371 is a reply to message #17341] Thu, 02 April 2009 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
clrydin
Messages: 30
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Apr 2, 9:55 am, peteo <peteoverri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Your placement at the end is fairly pointless"
>
> So your goal is to have teams play a bunch of games against teams with
> similar skill, not to have an actual tournament. That means it's kind
> of pointless to give us places and have a finals match, doesn't it?

I'm not saying this is the best format, I was simply trying to help
explain it a bit more...

The problem that I see with Huck Finn is the huge difference between
the top and bottom level of competition. Centex ran much smoother in
my opinion because (with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 teams) every
team in attendance consistently qualifies for regionals.

I play at Texas A&M and I think its fair to say that we were in the
mid-to-lower end of the pack going into Centex (10th in our group of
17), but we were still able to play games against 3 historically great
teams (potential cultimate or C1 teams) and have respectable outcomes,
Loss 13-6, Win 13-11, Loss 12-10. At centex even the lower seeded
teams were able to put up points against the "big-guys", on the other
hand at Huck Finn I think it would be a waste of time to have those B-
teams or lower level A's play against the elite.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17382 is a reply to message #17334] Thu, 02 April 2009 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
On Apr 2, 9:47 am, Clrydin34 <clry...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > ---elite teams...........prepare THEMSELVES for nationals.
>
> Yes and No, if Carleton, Florida, and Colorado didnt play in a
> tournament all year, they would likely still make it to nationals
> based on talent but I dont think they would have a shot winning.
> Players need that experience throughout the year to learn how to win
> the big games... in my opinion, there is no substitute for tournament
> experience, a young player can learn so much in a weekend.  The teams
> learn what they need to work on as well and take that back to practice
> and fine-tune everything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---i've won some championships.....and i know about tournaments....
played against good teams and bad teams....
never kept my teams from making college nationals and the final
four....
i know all about fine tuning....
and i know that being an elitist piece of crap who will only stoop to
playing other super duper top teams ISN'T best for ultimate....or for
a team.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17386 is a reply to message #17371] Thu, 02 April 2009 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
soffer801
Messages: 17
Registered: December 2008
Junior Member
On Apr 2, 2:56 pm, Clrydin34 <clry...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 2, 9:55 am, peteo <peteoverri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Your placement at the end is fairly pointless"
>
> > So your goal is to have teams play a bunch of games against teams with
> > similar skill, not to have an actual tournament. That means it's kind
> > of pointless to give us places and have a finals match, doesn't it?
>
> I'm not saying this is the best format, I was simply trying to help
> explain it a bit more...
>
> The problem that I see with Huck Finn is the huge difference between
> the top and bottom level of competition.  Centex ran much smoother in
> my opinion because (with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 teams) every
> team in attendance consistently qualifies for regionals.
>
> I play at Texas A&M and I think its fair to say that we were in the
> mid-to-lower end of the pack going into Centex (10th in our group of
> 17), but we were still able to play games against 3 historically great
> teams (potential cultimate or C1 teams) and have respectable outcomes,
> Loss 13-6, Win 13-11, Loss 12-10.  At centex even the lower seeded
> teams were able to put up points against the "big-guys", on the other
> hand at Huck Finn I think it would be a waste of time to have those B-
> teams or lower level A's play against the elite.

I am the captain of a B-team, and I always dread having to play top
tier teams. They have no reason to take it seriously, and even if we
do, we won't be able to score. I like the general pool and then
bracket play format, but I think there is something to be said for
Cultimate's formatting. Looking at our schedule for Huck Finn, I see 1
game we can't win, and 2 that shouldn't be difficult. The other 3 that
are already scheduled will be extremely close, the kind of game that
everyone lives for. This is the first tournament I have been to where
I felt that I was really getting to play mostly teams that were at our
level of play.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17399 is a reply to message #17386] Thu, 02 April 2009 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul
Messages: 48
Registered: September 2008
Member
If I'm not mistaken Centex had a similar format to Huck Finn. From
what I read on Michigan's blog, they went 5-1, only losing to CUT by 2
points, and their final matchup ended up being the 13th/14th place
game against Rice. I don't think I'd want to play in one of these
tournaments.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17402 is a reply to message #17334] Thu, 02 April 2009 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
On Apr 2, 9:47 am, Clrydin34 <clry...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > ---elite teams...........prepare THEMSELVES for nationals.
>
> Yes and No, if Carleton, Florida, and Colorado didnt play in a
> tournament all year, they would likely still make it to nationals
> based on talent but I dont think they would have a shot winning.
> Players need that experience throughout the year to learn how to win
> the big games... in my opinion, there is no substitute for tournament
> experience, a young player can learn so much in a weekend.  The teams
> learn what they need to work on as well and take that back to practice
> and fine-tune everything.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---are you suggesting that I was suggesting that by 'preparing'
themselves for nationals...that i meant that they don't have to go to
a tournament?
seriously?
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17403 is a reply to message #17347] Thu, 02 April 2009 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> out of curiosity, would these tournaments you host have observers?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---some would...some wouldn't....
hopefully they all would.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17410 is a reply to message #17403] Thu, 02 April 2009 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wagenwheel
Messages: 323
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Apr 2, 8:31 pm, ageric...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > out of curiosity, would these tournaments you host have observers?
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ---some would...some wouldn't....
> hopefully they all would.

As a college player, even before we knew we were good, we always
wanted to play the best teams. It teaches you about the game. Why
did they beat us by 13? What did they do that we didn't? How we can
we steal their offensive and defensive schemes and apply them to our
skill level.

Playing the better teams is a measuring stick for every college
program. Great teams do not mind playing a blow out game or two, just
not an entire tourney of blowout games. We wanted to play Black Tide,
The Buds, NYNY, DoG, Earth Atomizers, CUT, Yo Mama, Looney Tunes,
Titanic, Slugs, YA'LL, Ring of Fire and the rest. One of our greatest
victories as a college team was coming back down 2-8 in Columbia SC to
beat Ring of Fire in semis. Conclusion: format flawed.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17422 is a reply to message #17410] Thu, 02 April 2009 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Naji
Messages: 100
Registered: November 2008
Senior Member
IF this is the format Cultimate will continue to use, my school will
DEFINITELY NOT RETURN.
Re: Huck Finn format [message #17428 is a reply to message #17422] Thu, 02 April 2009 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
JSH
Messages: 174
Registered: March 2009
Senior Member
why not just use a swiss system pairing for the entire tournament? it
works for chess tournaments... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_system_tournament
Previous Topic:Colonial Sectionals results
Next Topic:End of Year Wrap up
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Wed Feb 19 13:50:48 PST 2020
.:: Contact :: Home ::.

Powered by: FUDforum 3.0.0RC2.
Copyright ©2001-2009 FUDforum Bulletin Board Software