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Home » RSD » RSD Posts » Censorship, RSD, and Toad
Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14877] Sun, 08 March 2009 09:29 Go to next message
Wagenwheel
Messages: 323
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Cordelle, a famous photographer recently brought his work to display
at UNCW. "The Century Project" is an exhibit of nude photos of women
from birth to age 100. In the exhibit there are photos of a baby
crowning at birth, pre-teens, teens, all the way to age 100. The
administrators at UNCW saw some of the photos as controversial and not
fit for exhibit. UNCW is the only college to display the exhibit with
such restrictions.

This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
"Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
offensive remarks, and respond accordingly. Is it right to have him
banned from the Newsgroup because of his inflammatory and admittedly
non-pc remarks to his detractors? I think not.

It's not easy to defend Toad, and I don't always agree with his views
and his way of going about it. But I find it amazing that he has be
BANNED again from posting on RSD. Do you really think this will keep
him away? I am astonished that the "open minded Ultimate Community"
that I grew up thinking was so refreshing turns out to be like living
in Chapel Hill. Often known as an open minded town until you don't
agree with their views and it suddenly ain't so open minded. Why
would you go so far as to try to prevent someone from practicing free
speech? You don't like it, don't read it. Just like if you don't
like a radio station or the shock jocks that spout off on it, change
the station.

By the way, banning him means he's winning. He's in your head, right
where he wants to be. For fooks sake, it's not like he's a Nazi
supporter, he wants refs in Ultimate and he wants them now. So what
if he uses similar slanders that one would find on a middle school
playground, whilst using the spelling of an elementary student? It's
not hate speech, It's Ultimate Spirit Hate Speech. Get some
perspective people and think before you ban someone from RSD. Today
it's RSD, tomorrow it's Cultimate. Most importantly quit being such a
candy asses.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14881 is a reply to message #14877] Sun, 08 March 2009 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff
Messages: 338
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
third party refs involved in our RDS, how unprofessional


On Mar 8, 12:29�pm, Wagenwheel <ewagensel...@ec.rr.com> wrote:
> Cordelle, a famous photographer recently brought his work to display
> at UNCW. �"The Century Project" is an exhibit of nude photos of women
> from birth to age 100. �In the exhibit there are photos of a baby
> crowning at birth, pre-teens, teens, all the way to age 100. �The
> administrators at UNCW saw some of the photos as controversial and not
> fit for exhibit. �UNCW is the only college to display the exhibit with
> such restrictions.
>
> This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
> "Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
> answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
> offensive remarks, and respond accordingly. � Is it right to have him
> banned from the Newsgroup because of his inflammatory and admittedly
> non-pc remarks to his detractors? �I think not.
>
> It's not easy to defend Toad, and I don't always agree with his views
> and his way of going about it. �But I find it amazing that he has be
> BANNED again from posting on RSD. �Do you really think this will keep
> him away? �I am astonished that the "open minded Ultimate Community"
> that I grew up thinking was so refreshing turns out to be like living
> in Chapel Hill. �Often known as an open minded town until you don't
> agree with their views and it suddenly ain't so open minded. �Why
> would you go so far as to try to prevent someone from practicing free
> speech? �You don't like it, don't read it. �Just like if you don't
> like a radio station or the shock jocks that spout off on it, change
> the station.
>
> By the way, banning him means he's winning. �He's in your head, right
> where he wants to be. �For fooks sake, it's not like he's a Nazi
> supporter, he wants refs in Ultimate and he wants them now. �So what
> if he uses similar slanders that one would find on a middle school
> playground, whilst using the spelling of an elementary student? �It's
> not hate speech, It's Ultimate Spirit Hate Speech. �Get some
> perspective people and think before you ban someone from RSD. �Today
> it's RSD, tomorrow it's Cultimate. �Most importantly quit being such a
> candy asses.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14884 is a reply to message #14881] Sun, 08 March 2009 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Jeff, an online discussion forum is different from an athletic
competition. Regulating expression based on content is different from
deciding the outcome of a foul call.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14888 is a reply to message #14877] Sun, 08 March 2009 11:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seanc
Messages: 322
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 8, 9:29 am, Wagenwheel <ewagensel...@ec.rr.com> wrote:
> Cordelle, a famous photographer recently brought his work to display
> at UNCW.  "The Century Project" is an exhibit of nude photos of women
> from birth to age 100.  In the exhibit there are photos of a baby
> crowning at birth, pre-teens, teens, all the way to age 100.  The
> administrators at UNCW saw some of the photos as controversial and not
> fit for exhibit.  UNCW is the only college to display the exhibit with
> such restrictions.
>
> This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
> "Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
> answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
> offensive remarks, and respond accordingly.   Is it right to have him
> banned from the Newsgroup because of his inflammatory and admittedly
> non-pc remarks to his detractors?  I think not.
>
> It's not easy to defend Toad, and I don't always agree with his views
> and his way of going about it.  But I find it amazing that he has be
> BANNED again from posting on RSD.  Do you really think this will keep
> him away?  I am astonished that the "open minded Ultimate Community"
> that I grew up thinking was so refreshing turns out to be like living
> in Chapel Hill.  Often known as an open minded town until you don't
> agree with their views and it suddenly ain't so open minded.  Why
> would you go so far as to try to prevent someone from practicing free
> speech?  You don't like it, don't read it.  Just like if you don't
> like a radio station or the shock jocks that spout off on it, change
> the station.
>
> By the way, banning him means he's winning.  He's in your head, right
> where he wants to be.  For fooks sake, it's not like he's a Nazi
> supporter, he wants refs in Ultimate and he wants them now.  So what
> if he uses similar slanders that one would find on a middle school
> playground, whilst using the spelling of an elementary student?  It's
> not hate speech, It's Ultimate Spirit Hate Speech.  Get some
> perspective people and think before you ban someone from RSD.  Today
> it's RSD, tomorrow it's Cultimate.  Most importantly quit being such a
> candy asses.

1. it is very difficult to get banned from usenet. in several years
of usenet use, i've only ever seen it once before -- also to toad.
2. i'm not exactly sure how someone goes about getting banned, but you
seem to think it's something someone here did to him. maybe someone
who understands the process better can explain it to us, but i'm
pretty sure you and i don't have the power as individuals to ban
someone. sounds to me like he brought it upon himself.
3. last time it happened, he just made up a new email address
(appropriated his wife's?), and kept posting. he claims he's got
kids, so maybe he can use one of theirs. it's not like he's going
away forever.
4. even if i had the power, i don't think i'd ban toad from posting.
having said that, his homophobic slurs are hate speech and have no
place here or on a playground.

sean
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14890 is a reply to message #14884] Sun, 08 March 2009 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scoop
Messages: 76
Registered: September 2008
Member
No ultimate player has any power to "ban" Toad. His user-names have
been blocked twice -- in both cases i have no idea why. I guess google
does it. Who cares? He's not only free to create a new username he's
also free to start a blog, a website, a mimegraphed toad-zine (i can
see him now with a card table next to the Spartacist youth league
idiots and the pachouli salesman at Washington Square.) No censorship,
nothing to see here. I would welcome toad back. A village without a
village idiot is not really a village. (But no, Ed, refusing to answer
a village idiot's persistent questions about why "the spurit terorists
keep putting dyodes into my brane" isn't censorship either.)

He reminds me of the White Knight's Song:

I'll tell thee everything I can:
There's little to relate.
I saw an aged, aged man,
A-sitting on a gate.

"Who are you, aged man?" I said.
"And how is it you live?"
And his answer trickled through my head,
Like water through a sieve.
He said, "I look for butterflies
That sleep among the wheat:
I make them into mutton-pies,
And sell them in the street.
I sell them unto men," he said,
"Who sail on stormy seas;
And that's the way I get my bread--
A trifle, if you please."

But I was thinking of a plan
To dye one's whiskers green,
And always use so large a fan
That it could not be seen.
So having no reply to give
To what the old man said,
I cried, "Come, tell me how you live!"
And thumped him on the head.

His accents mild took up the tale;
He said, "I go my ways,
And when I find a mountain-rill,
I set it in a blaze;
And thence they make a stuff they call
Rowland's Macassar Oil--
Yet twopence-halfpenny is all
They give me for my toil."

But I was thinking of a way
To feed oneself on batter,
And so go on from day to day
Getting a little fatter.
I shook him well from side to side,
Until his face was blue:
"Come, tell me how you live," I cried,
"And what it is you do!"

etc...
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14892 is a reply to message #14890] Sun, 08 March 2009 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seppo[1]
Messages: 80
Registered: September 2008
Location: Kansas City
Member

Yeah, I don't think it's actually possible to ban someone from using
Usenet and NNTP newsservers. Toad may have been banned from using the
Google Groups interface to RSD, but there are many ways to post to
newsservers, all of which are unmoderated and uncontrolled.

He could simply create a new email address and start again.

Long live the 1st Amendment!

- Seppo #22

====================
UltiTalk.Com
The Place To Talk Ultimate.
http://www.ultitalk.com
====================
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14893 is a reply to message #14888] Sun, 08 March 2009 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
H
Messages: 249
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
If you're reading this on google groups, there's a 'more options' link
in the top right corner. One of the options is 'report abuse'. I
think if enough people do it enough times in a certain interval, it'll
block an email address.

h

On Mar 8, 12:00 pm, discj...@yahoo.com wrote:

>
> 1. it is very difficult to get banned from usenet.  in several years
> of usenet use, i've only ever seen it once before -- also to toad.
> 2. i'm not exactly sure how someone goes about getting banned, but you
> seem to think it's something someone here did to him.  maybe someone
> who understands the process better can explain it to us, but i'm
> pretty sure you and i don't have the power as individuals to ban
> someone.  sounds to me like he brought it upon himself.
> 3. last time it happened, he just made up a new email address
> (appropriated his wife's?), and kept posting.  he claims he's got
> kids, so maybe he can use one of theirs.  it's not like he's going
> away forever.
> 4. even if i had the power, i don't think i'd ban toad from posting.
> having said that, his homophobic slurs are hate speech and have no
> place here or on a playground.
>
> sean
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14894 is a reply to message #14877] Sun, 08 March 2009 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
I find it amazing that he has be
> BANNED again from posting on RSD.  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---has he? really?
seriously?
for real?

what in the world?

who is in charge of "banning" someone from a newsgroup?

what's the reason this time?

jeeze...
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14896 is a reply to message #14877] Sun, 08 March 2009 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
simonatalbot
Messages: 32
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Mar 9, 3:29 am, Wagenwheel <ewagensel...@ec.rr.com> wrote:
> This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
> "Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
> answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
> offensive remarks, and respond accordingly.

Not saying I agree with his banning, but he refuses to answer just
about every question I have ever put to him. Best example would be
after his refzerver proposal to the UPA board (I think it might have
been around board election time) I asked several times what his budget
estimates were. Only ever got one reply and it was along the lines of
"the upa have the money they should just fuckin pay for it!!!" So I
guess no one answers his relevant questions because he never answers
anyone else's. He just likes the sound of his own voice....or the look
of his own words, as it were.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14897 is a reply to message #14896] Sun, 08 March 2009 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
agerics20
Messages: 8115
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> about every question I have ever put to him. Best example would be
> after his refzerver proposal to the UPA board (I think it might have
> been around board election time) I asked several times what his budget
> estimates were. Only ever got one reply and it was along the lines of
> "the upa have the money they should just fuckin pay for it!!!" So I
> guess no one answers his relevant questions because he never answers
> anyone else's.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

---sounds like an answer to me.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14902 is a reply to message #14877] Sun, 08 March 2009 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
StockOption
Messages: 36
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Mar 8, 9:29 am, Wagenwheel <ewagensel...@ec.rr.com> wrote:
> Cordelle, a famous photographer recently brought his work to display
> at UNCW.  "The Century Project" is an exhibit of nude photos of women
> from birth to age 100.  In the exhibit there are photos of a baby
> crowning at birth, pre-teens, teens, all the way to age 100.  The
> administrators at UNCW saw some of the photos as controversial and not
> fit for exhibit.  UNCW is the only college to display the exhibit with
> such restrictions.
>
> This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
> "Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
> answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
> offensive remarks, and respond accordingly.   Is it right to have him
> banned from the Newsgroup because of his inflammatory and admittedly
> non-pc remarks to his detractors?  I think not.

This is only a good analogy if you assume RSD is the only newsgroup
that would ban Toad for all his vitriol. I don't think that's a good
assumption. Sure, some newsgroups down the darkest alleys would never
have him banned, but I'd put money on many groups having less
tolerance for Toad than rsd has shown (assuming that it's abuse
reporting that got him banned. I have no idea). A better analogy -
both in terms of rhetoric and controversy - would be to Malik Shabazz,
the leader of the New Black Panther Party, coming to speak at your
university.

>
> It's not easy to defend Toad, and I don't always agree with his views
> and his way of going about it.  But I find it amazing that he has be
> BANNED again from posting on RSD.  

I don't find it amazing in the least, especially considering how much
he's ratcheted up the angry as of late. I'm sure Toad would deny
people getting under his skin, but in some of his recent posts he's
been downright pissed off. What I do find amazing (and were I a
conspiracy theorist, somewhat suspect) is that both times he's been
banned, Toad has been within a few posts of becoming the #2 all time
poster on RSD. FWIW, I kinda wanted him to get there.

> Do you really think this will keep
> him away?  I am astonished that the "open minded Ultimate Community"
> that I grew up thinking was so refreshing turns out to be like living
> in Chapel Hill.  Often known as an open minded town until you don't
> agree with their views and it suddenly ain't so open minded.  Why
> would you go so far as to try to prevent someone from practicing free
> speech?  You don't like it, don't read it.  Just like if you don't
> like a radio station or the shock jocks that spout off on it, change
> the station.

Here's a good political analogy: Toad is to Rush Limbaugh as the pro-
ref movement is to the Republican Party. While there's a lot of good
folks (and ideas) in the Republican Party, many people would say Rush
isn't one of them. Does riding him for being divisive and unproductive
make one close minded? No. Openness to ideas is not the same as
practicing free speech is not the same as saying whatever you want.
You're above point seems to equate the first of those with the last.

I'm gonna go off on a tangent here: what I personally don't like about
Toad is the life he claims to live. Yes, it's his life and he can live
it how he wants to, but it still riles me up... he is a 'successful',
'semi-retired' person with a wife and kids, yet he spends an
inordinate amount of time posting deliberately inflammatory and mostly
unproductive posts on a newsgroup dedicated to a sport he hasn't
actually played in years. He could be seeing the world, or spending
time with his family, or - you know - going out in the world and
actually making a difference in the ultimate community, or even
cleaning his garage. But instead he posts, on average, 7 times a day,
every day for the past year (this is not an exaggeration, this is how
the numbers work out) on a newsgroup dedicated to a sport he hasn't
played in years. He could be living vicariously though his children,
instead he lives vicariously through RSD.

> By the way, banning him means he's winning.  

Read my previous comment. I assure you, he is not winning.

> He's in your head, right
> where he wants to be.  For fooks sake, it's not like he's a Nazi
> supporter, he wants refs in Ultimate and he wants them now.  So what
> if he uses similar slanders that one would find on a middle school
> playground, whilst using the spelling of an elementary student?  It's
> not hate speech, It's Ultimate Spirit Hate Speech.  Get some
> perspective people and think before you ban someone from RSD.  Today
> it's RSD, tomorrow it's Cultimate.  Most importantly quit being such a
> candy asses.

You should go back and read his more recent posts. IMO, some of them
do border on hate speech, and I guarantee you people more sensitive
than the folks on RSD would unconditionally call it hate speech.

One last aside. What is your angle Wagenwheel? You're defending Toad's
right to post on RSD, but as you point out this will not really deter
him or keep him away. All it amounts to is a slap on the wrist. His
'right' to post seems safe. So why does his antics need defending?
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14906 is a reply to message #14902] Sun, 08 March 2009 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Head Beagle
Messages: 65
Registered: September 2008
Member
1. Did Toad really get banned?

2. How did that happen?

3. Do you think he was banned for his view on ultimate, or because of
repeated homophobic slurs, personal attack, occasional threats, and
other behavior that people find objectionable? I ask because, while I
have consistently argued with Toad and gotten him mad and such as much
as anyone...well, not as much as Pinto, but a bit more than average, I
have never once even considered reporting him for abuse or any such
thing and I really don't think many other people on here would either.

Just a thought, people (non-ultimate players) search Google Group
boards looking for people that they don't agree with (IE: people who
consistently insult homosexuals). These people then email all their
friends to hit the "report abuse" button on that persons profile and,
wha la, with no Ultimate player involvement you have a banned account.
I could definitely see that happening to Toad.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14910 is a reply to message #14906] Sun, 08 March 2009 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
When posted content is flagged as "abusive" by readers, how closely is
the flagged content scrutinized? Does anyone know?

Here's what I think happened:

Head Beagle and some of his other spirit zealots (which probably
included a few high-ranking upa people) just flagged a bunch of Toad's
content as abusive based purely on Toad's pro-ref stance, not his gay-
related statements. Google the just counted the flags and went into
automatic ban mode, without actually scrutinizing the content.

Now, Head Beagle is cleverly covering his tracks. Pretty sad, HB.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14913 is a reply to message #14877] Sun, 08 March 2009 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pautesch
Messages: 122
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 8, 11:29 am, Wagenwheel <ewagensel...@ec.rr.com> wrote:
> Cordelle, a famous photographer recently brought his work to display
> at UNCW.  "The Century Project" is an exhibit of nude photos of women
> from birth to age 100.  In the exhibit there are photos of a baby
> crowning at birth, pre-teens, teens, all the way to age 100.  The
> administrators at UNCW saw some of the photos as controversial and not
> fit for exhibit.  UNCW is the only college to display the exhibit with
> such restrictions.
>
> This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
> "Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
> answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
> offensive remarks, and respond accordingly.   Is it right to have him
> banned from the Newsgroup because of his inflammatory and admittedly
> non-pc remarks to his detractors?  I think not.
>
> It's not easy to defend Toad, and I don't always agree with his views
> and his way of going about it.  But I find it amazing that he has be
> BANNED again from posting on RSD.  Do you really think this will keep
> him away?  I am astonished that the "open minded Ultimate Community"
> that I grew up thinking was so refreshing turns out to be like living
> in Chapel Hill.  Often known as an open minded town until you don't
> agree with their views and it suddenly ain't so open minded.  Why
> would you go so far as to try to prevent someone from practicing free
> speech?  You don't like it, don't read it.  Just like if you don't
> like a radio station or the shock jocks that spout off on it, change
> the station.
>
> By the way, banning him means he's winning.  He's in your head, right
> where he wants to be.  For fooks sake, it's not like he's a Nazi
> supporter, he wants refs in Ultimate and he wants them now.  So what
> if he uses similar slanders that one would find on a middle school
> playground, whilst using the spelling of an elementary student?  It's
> not hate speech, It's Ultimate Spirit Hate Speech.  Get some
> perspective people and think before you ban someone from RSD.  Today
> it's RSD, tomorrow it's Cultimate.  Most importantly quit being such a
> candy asses.

*yawn*

I think Toad's rantings are not conducive nor innovative to the sport
of Ultimate. I'd rather see him banned so I can read through a thread
without stumbling upon a posting riddled with paragraphs picked apart
and commented on with poor grammar/spelling and mindless drabble.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14919 is a reply to message #14910] Sun, 08 March 2009 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Head Beagle
Messages: 65
Registered: September 2008
Member
Right...I'm a spirit zealot.

You are basing your assumption off the fact that I disagree with Toad
on a lot of stuff. Mostly, I disagree with his assertion that elite
level, proffessionalized ultimate with refs is the best way to market
the sport and that anything except professional, elite level reffed
ultimate is a waste of the ultimate communities resources. I think
youth development is far and away the most important. I also think
Toad is prone to completely irrational statements (IE: Blaming the
WFDF for things that were mandated to them by the IWGA, cussing up a
storm about something that wasn't on the UPA board blog when it
actually was, ignoring basic facts, things like that) and I find him
an interesting person to observe and poke and prod and see what
happens.

On refs, I have always said that it is logistically very difficult and
cost prohibitive at this point to try to make refs mandatory across
the board.

And finally, Toad never noticed it, but in the past I have been a
strong advocate of active up/down calls, travel calls, and in/out
calls, while leaving foul calls in the hands of the players. I think
the new changes for the college series are fantastic, if there are
enough properly trained officials to pull it off. I have given a ton
of thought to an effective third party arbitration system and think it
would work great. If I had 10 million dollars laying around, I would
probably try to start a fully reffed, 8 team elite ultimate league
with scoreboards and everything that Toad wants. I don't have 10
million dollars, no one in the ultimate community does (that I know
of), so we can't really head that way, but that doesn't mean it is a
bad idea.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14921 is a reply to message #14919] Sun, 08 March 2009 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Umm ... I was just kidding, HB.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14925 is a reply to message #14921] Sun, 08 March 2009 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
throw
Messages: 743
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
jumping on just after dark on sunday.....only read Wahgenwheel's post

pretty damn funny.

first time i send google a complaint about toad (true ) he gets shut
out for a couple days.

Toad needs some time out. D

Didn't know it could be so easy.


Later,
Peter & Hank & Co.
www.thisisultimate.com
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14926 is a reply to message #14921] Sun, 08 March 2009 18:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Head Beagle
Messages: 65
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Mar 8, 8:22 pm, jacob <jacobsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Umm ... I was just kidding, HB.

Well...well, you're a, uh...mmmm...very mean person for tricking me
like that. I bite my thumb at you.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14927 is a reply to message #14925] Sun, 08 March 2009 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
throw
Messages: 743
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
p.s. i can only assume it was due to a bunch of complaints "stacking
up" on what his face...or something along those lines.

later,
Peter & Hank & Co.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14928 is a reply to message #14897] Sun, 08 March 2009 18:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
simonatalbot
Messages: 32
Registered: October 2008
Member
On Mar 9, 7:21 am, ageric...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > about every question I have ever put to him. Best example would be
> > after his refzerver proposal to the UPA board (I think it might have
> > been around board election time) I asked several times what his budget
> > estimates were. Only ever got one reply and it was along the lines of
> > "the upa have the money they should just fuckin pay for it!!!" So I
> > guess no one answers his relevant questions because he never answers
> > anyone else's.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ---sounds like an answer to me.

Toad: "Why aren't there refs in ultimate?"
Me: "Because I love you. That's why."

I'm happy to roll with that.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14930 is a reply to message #14928] Sun, 08 March 2009 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Knappy
Messages: 830
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
wait, are we comparing Toad's abusive, homophobic, illiterate posts to
the work of a famous photographer?

Although I personally get a chuckle out of a few of Toads' crazy posts
& enjoy wasting time arguing with him, he did this to himself. (and
soon will be right back at it, no doubt.....)

If you're going to pee in the community watering hole, someone might
occasionally kick you in the nuts.






On Mar 8, 9:35 pm, simonatalbot <SATal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 9, 7:21 am, ageric...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > about every question I have ever put to him. Best example would be
> > > after his refzerver proposal to the UPA board (I think it might have
> > > been around board election time) I asked several times what his budget
> > > estimates were. Only ever got one reply and it was along the lines of
> > > "the upa have the money they should just fuckin pay for it!!!" So I
> > > guess no one answers his relevant questions because he never answers
> > > anyone else's.
>
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> > ---sounds like an answer to me.
>
> Toad: "Why aren't there refs in ultimate?"
> Me: "Because I love you. That's why."
>
> I'm happy to roll with that.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14934 is a reply to message #14930] Sun, 08 March 2009 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
"If you're going to pee in the community watering hole, someone might
occasionally kick you in the nuts."

Terrible. Try a little harder, Knappy. There should be some pee-
related consequence involved here in order for this to flow; like "If
you pee in the community watering hole, you end up drinking something
nasty."

As for comparing Toad to an artist, yeah, that is what we should do if
in fact a first-amended analysis is required, otherwise we don't
really have freedom of speech. I don't think the first amendment
applies to google blocking an rsd poster (UNCW banning art may be
different, since it is a public school receiving government money),
but that is a separate issue.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14936 is a reply to message #14877] Sun, 08 March 2009 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Manzell
Messages: 145
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
> This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
> "Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
> answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
> offensive remarks, and respond accordingly.   Is it right to have him
> banned from the Newsgroup because of his inflammatory and admittedly
> non-pc remarks to his detractors?  I think not.

It doesn't take a "Spirit Zealot" to refuse to answer Toads 'relevant'
questions - they (we) simply aren't responding to Toad. If he asked/
proposed his questions in anything resembling a reasonable manner,
reasonable people would talk with him.

Personally, I hope he takes his lame-ass rhetoric 'to the streets' and
find out how people react when he talks the way he writes in someone's
face.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14971 is a reply to message #14877] Mon, 09 March 2009 11:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fish
Messages: 46
Registered: September 2008
Member
On Mar 8, 9:29 am, Wagenwheel <ewagensel...@ec.rr.com> wrote:
> Cordelle, a famous photographer recently brought his work to display
> at UNCW.  "The Century Project" is an exhibit of nude photos of women
> from birth to age 100.  In the exhibit there are photos of a baby
> crowning at birth, pre-teens, teens, all the way to age 100.  The
> administrators at UNCW saw some of the photos as controversial and not
> fit for exhibit.  UNCW is the only college to display the exhibit with
> such restrictions.
>
> This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
> "Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
> answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
> offensive remarks, and respond accordingly.   Is it right to have him
> banned from the Newsgroup because of his inflammatory and admittedly
> non-pc remarks to his detractors?  I think not.
>
> It's not easy to defend Toad, and I don't always agree with his views
> and his way of going about it.  But I find it amazing that he has be
> BANNED again from posting on RSD.  Do you really think this will keep
> him away?  I am astonished that the "open minded Ultimate Community"
> that I grew up thinking was so refreshing turns out to be like living
> in Chapel Hill.  Often known as an open minded town until you don't
> agree with their views and it suddenly ain't so open minded.  Why
> would you go so far as to try to prevent someone from practicing free
> speech?  You don't like it, don't read it.  Just like if you don't
> like a radio station or the shock jocks that spout off on it, change
> the station.
>
> By the way, banning him means he's winning.  He's in your head, right
> where he wants to be.  For fooks sake, it's not like he's a Nazi
> supporter, he wants refs in Ultimate and he wants them now.  So what
> if he uses similar slanders that one would find on a middle school
> playground, whilst using the spelling of an elementary student?  It's
> not hate speech, It's Ultimate Spirit Hate Speech.  Get some
> perspective people and think before you ban someone from RSD.  Today
> it's RSD, tomorrow it's Cultimate.  Most importantly quit being such a
> candy asses.

toad got banned? i haven't visited RSD in months and i come back to
find this? it might be worth the effort to read RSD once more. it's a
good day.

fish
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14972 is a reply to message #14971] Mon, 09 March 2009 11:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
faddy
Messages: 310
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 9, 2:01 pm, Fish <UltimateF...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 8, 9:29 am, Wagenwheel <ewagensel...@ec.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Cordelle, a famous photographer recently brought his work to display
> > at UNCW.  "The Century Project" is an exhibit of nude photos of women
> > from birth to age 100.  In the exhibit there are photos of a baby
> > crowning at birth, pre-teens, teens, all the way to age 100.  The
> > administrators at UNCW saw some of the photos as controversial and not
> > fit for exhibit.  UNCW is the only college to display the exhibit with
> > such restrictions.
>
> > This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
> > "Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
> > answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
> > offensive remarks, and respond accordingly.   Is it right to have him
> > banned from the Newsgroup because of his inflammatory and admittedly
> > non-pc remarks to his detractors?  I think not.
>
> > It's not easy to defend Toad, and I don't always agree with his views
> > and his way of going about it.  But I find it amazing that he has be
> > BANNED again from posting on RSD.  Do you really think this will keep
> > him away?  I am astonished that the "open minded Ultimate Community"
> > that I grew up thinking was so refreshing turns out to be like living
> > in Chapel Hill.  Often known as an open minded town until you don't
> > agree with their views and it suddenly ain't so open minded.  Why
> > would you go so far as to try to prevent someone from practicing free
> > speech?  You don't like it, don't read it.  Just like if you don't
> > like a radio station or the shock jocks that spout off on it, change
> > the station.
>
> > By the way, banning him means he's winning.  He's in your head, right
> > where he wants to be.  For fooks sake, it's not like he's a Nazi
> > supporter, he wants refs in Ultimate and he wants them now.  So what
> > if he uses similar slanders that one would find on a middle school
> > playground, whilst using the spelling of an elementary student?  It's
> > not hate speech, It's Ultimate Spirit Hate Speech.  Get some
> > perspective people and think before you ban someone from RSD.  Today
> > it's RSD, tomorrow it's Cultimate.  Most importantly quit being such a
> > candy asses.
>
> toad got banned? i haven't visited RSD in months and i come back to
> find this? it might be worth the effort to read RSD once more. it's a
> good day.
>
> fish- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If that's all it takes, I assume (actually, i assure) that abunch of
others will be "banned" in short order as well.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14976 is a reply to message #14910] Mon, 09 March 2009 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jermleeds
Messages: 270
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
I don't think we have any evidence either way, Jacob.

Jeremy




On Mar 8, 3:33 pm, jacob <jacobsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When posted content is flagged as "abusive" by readers, how closely is
> the flagged content scrutinized? Does anyone know?
>
> Here's what I think happened:
>
> Head Beagle and some of his other spirit zealots (which probably
> included a few high-ranking upa people) just flagged a bunch of Toad's
> content as abusive based purely on Toad's pro-ref stance, not his gay-
> related statements.  Google the just counted the flags and went into
> automatic ban mode, without actually scrutinizing the content.
>
> Now, Head Beagle is cleverly covering his tracks.  Pretty sad, HB.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14977 is a reply to message #14921] Mon, 09 March 2009 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jermleeds
Messages: 270
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Well, I missed that you were joking, too. Maybe your snark is so poker-
faced and subtle that the average RSD misses it?


On Mar 8, 5:22 pm, jacob <jacobsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Umm ... I was just kidding, HB.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #14987 is a reply to message #14977] Mon, 09 March 2009 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jacob
Messages: 576
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Or maybe it's just tough to parody that which already borders on self-
parody.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15023 is a reply to message #14930] Mon, 09 March 2009 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scpoulos
Messages: 225
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 8, 9:54 pm, Knappy <knappy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> wait, are we comparing Toad's abusive, homophobic, illiterate posts to
> the work of a famous photographer?
>
> Although I personally get a chuckle out of a few of Toads' crazy posts
> & enjoy wasting time arguing with him, he did this to himself. (and
> soon will be right back at it, no doubt.....)
>
> If you're going to pee in the community watering hole, someone might
> occasionally kick you in the nuts.
>

Knappy, just how much of a chump can you sound like? Toad actually
has good ideas for making this sport bigger and better. the problem is
that non-athletes like yourself will get left behind... I guess he
just got tired of trying to be nice to a bunch of soft, know-it-alls
that have been doing their best to keep ultimate down for 30+ years.
This is just ironic. kind of like how Socrates was done back in the
day. Ask anyone who played at the acc championships in chapel hill,
nc and just last weekend at the tally classic in tallahassee, fl about
how they like playing with active observers that bordered on being
considered referees. All that I talked to said that it was a great
experience that let the games run smoothly without all the bickering
and shitty calls. just how long will it take before the ultimate
community realizes that this is the way to go during more competitive
venues? looking forward to being a part of this transition process
whenever it does happen. and oh yeah, looking forward to more Toad
posts in the future, no matter what user name he has to use!!
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15026 is a reply to message #14877] Mon, 09 March 2009 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tim
Messages: 21
Registered: September 2008
Junior Member
it would be cool if someone could post Toad's letter to the editor that was
in the UPA Newsletter about 16 years ago when he talked about how much he
loved the game and the people that played it.

In his heyday he was very fast and very quick and I can't remember him ever
making a bs call. In fact, he was the leader of a Wilmington team that
would bang around with you and not call fouls (or expect them to be called).

It helps to have that context of him when you read his posts-he is laughing
all the way while still being concerned about making Ultimate a better game.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15032 is a reply to message #14877] Mon, 09 March 2009 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ME
Messages: 137
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
I have one suggestion for Toad and all RSD users. Stop using Google Groups
to access and post to Usenet groups.

I have switched back to using Outlook Express (Mac users can use
Thunderbird) and a free account from http://news.motzarella.org to access
and post to RSD lately. It's a much better and spam free alternative to
Google Groups that allows me to filter out users or posts I don't like or
want to read. I also find that the threaded view in Outlook Express is much
easier to follow.

It's free, virtually spam free and takes 5 minutes to setup. Give it a
try - http://news.motzarella.org.

Vassar


"Wagenwheel" <ewagenseller@ec.rr.com> wrote in message
news:0bb78691-08a5-4bb0-9772-7459420669f9@41g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
> Cordelle, a famous photographer recently brought his work to display
> at UNCW. "The Century Project" is an exhibit of nude photos of women
> from birth to age 100. In the exhibit there are photos of a baby
> crowning at birth, pre-teens, teens, all the way to age 100. The
> administrators at UNCW saw some of the photos as controversial and not
> fit for exhibit. UNCW is the only college to display the exhibit with
> such restrictions.
>
> This reminded me of the RSD Ultimate community that represents the
> "Spirit Zealots" and politically correct wannabes that often refuse to
> answer Toad's releveant questions, clamor and his outrageous and
> offensive remarks, and respond accordingly. Is it right to have him
> banned from the Newsgroup because of his inflammatory and admittedly
> non-pc remarks to his detractors? I think not.
>
> It's not easy to defend Toad, and I don't always agree with his views
> and his way of going about it. But I find it amazing that he has be
> BANNED again from posting on RSD. Do you really think this will keep
> him away? I am astonished that the "open minded Ultimate Community"
> that I grew up thinking was so refreshing turns out to be like living
> in Chapel Hill. Often known as an open minded town until you don't
> agree with their views and it suddenly ain't so open minded. Why
> would you go so far as to try to prevent someone from practicing free
> speech? You don't like it, don't read it. Just like if you don't
> like a radio station or the shock jocks that spout off on it, change
> the station.
>
> By the way, banning him means he's winning. He's in your head, right
> where he wants to be. For fooks sake, it's not like he's a Nazi
> supporter, he wants refs in Ultimate and he wants them now. So what
> if he uses similar slanders that one would find on a middle school
> playground, whilst using the spelling of an elementary student? It's
> not hate speech, It's Ultimate Spirit Hate Speech. Get some
> perspective people and think before you ban someone from RSD. Today
> it's RSD, tomorrow it's Cultimate. Most importantly quit being such a
> candy asses.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15034 is a reply to message #14877] Mon, 09 March 2009 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MrPinto
Messages: 601
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Hrm... Wagen's post seems longer on invective than details... Toad
was banned again? By whom? For that matter, who was it that banned
him the first time? Google? His ISP?

Usenet doesn't ban people. RSD is a sub-set of usenet, and does not
ban people. RSD readers surely cannot ban anyone. Usenet is distinct
from the Google front-end that is provided by Google Groups. Users
need not use Google to post to RSD (or any other Usenet group) and
need not use Google to read posts either. Posts are associated with
an email though, and I suppose it's possible that whoever granted Toad
his most recent email address might have pulled the plug on him had
they received enough complaints. Google may also prohibit a given
user from using their interface to post to the group, and it might be
beyond Toad's technical ability to post through a different
conduit... This is idle speculation though, perhaps you could fill us
in on some details?

As someone noted, banning Toad for hate speech might be a censorship
issue, but it isn't a first amendment issue. The federal government
cannot prohibit Toad from making an ass of himself, but Google and/or
Toad's ISP are legally (and arguably ethically) fine in prohibiting
him from using their equipment as a vehicle for doing so.

"Spirit Zealot," is a slur that Toad uses for those who disagree with
him about anything, it's not very descriptive. Some probably disagree
with Toad over his plans for selling out, some over refs, some over
his homophobia and sexism, some over his illiterate ramblings, and
others over his generally abusive behavior. Surely there's some
overlap, but I don't see why members of one group would necessarily be
members of another.

If Toad has managed to get himself banned by some corporation, chances
are that the cause was some particular breach of standards. His
occasional threats of physical violence are a possibility, so is the
homophobic stuff. I couldn't see him getting banned just for being
obscene or childish. Still this is total speculation, fill us in with
the details if you've got any (and if you don't, perhaps you could
wait until you do before pointing fingers?).

FWIW, I haven't lodged a complaint with anyone about Toad's behavior,
other than what I've mentioned on this forum. I wish for his sake and
ours that Toad would grow up and start acting like a civilized adult,
but I have no need to resort to "e-tattling" as a means to that end.
For starters it's lame, but it also wouldn't work. We all know that
he's too old a dog to learn such a new trick.

All that said, if it is true that Toad got himself kicked off the
interwebs again, well, that's pretty much what the Germans had in mind
when they coined "Schadenfreude," right? I mean really, could it have
happened to a nicer guy? George Carlin and Lenny Bruce probably got
themselves kicked out of more places in a week than Toad will in a
lifetime, and they couldn't come back the next week just by getting a
new online handle. Oh yeah, and both had other things going for them
that Toad hasn't got, like being funny, clever and coherent. As
challenging as it might be for Toad to scrounge up another email
address, I'm confident that he hasn't got anything better to do and
will spare no effort in the preparation for his eventual return. I
wouldn't be surprised if he's back in time to win the infamous RSD
monthly posting crown for March. I admire your loyalty in standing by
Toad through this trying time, but I imagine that he'll come through
all right in the end.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15035 is a reply to message #15023] Mon, 09 March 2009 21:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 9, 9:33 pm, "scpou...@hotmail.com" <scpou...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Mar 8, 9:54 pm, Knappy <knappy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > wait, are we comparing Toad's abusive, homophobic, illiterate posts to
> > the work of a famous photographer?
>
> > Although I personally get a chuckle out of a few of Toads' crazy posts
> > & enjoy wasting time arguing with him, he did this to himself. (and
> > soon will be right back at it, no doubt.....)
>
> > If you're going to pee in the community watering hole, someone might
> > occasionally kick you in the nuts.
>
> Knappy,   just how much of a chump can you sound like? Toad actually
> has good ideas for making this sport bigger and better. the problem is
> that non-athletes like yourself will get left behind...  I guess he
> just got tired of trying to be nice to a bunch of soft, know-it-alls
> that have been doing their best to keep ultimate down for 30+ years.
> This is just ironic. kind of like how Socrates was done back in the
> day.  Ask anyone who played at the acc championships in chapel hill,
> nc and just last weekend at the tally classic in tallahassee, fl about
> how they like playing with active observers that bordered on being
> considered referees. All that I talked to said that it was a great
> experience that let the games run smoothly without all the bickering
> and shitty calls. just how long will it take before the ultimate
> community realizes that this is the way to go during more competitive
> venues?  looking forward to being a part of this transition process
> whenever it does happen.  and oh yeah, looking forward to more Toad
> posts in the future, no matter what user name he has to use!!

Don't confuse the work and ideas of people who actually accomplish
stuff with anything to do with Toad. His position was that working to
improve/expand the observer system was a waste of time. This
"refzerver" concept is just Toad stepping back from his previous
position and giving a stupid name to what lots of other people already
wanted anyway.

I'm in agreement with you that there are great benefits to be had from
expanding the power of observers and it does not surprise me that the
experiments have been well-received, but it's not some revolutionary
Toad idea. In my view, this brief hiatus from RSD posting is the
first thing he's contributed to the sport in quite some time (aside
from his not getting elected to the Board, which was also good for the
sport).
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15058 is a reply to message #15035] Tue, 10 March 2009 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Daag Alemayehu
Messages: 249
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 10, 12:36 am, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't confuse the work and ideas of people who actually accomplish
> stuff with anything to do with Toad.

Here's what I don't understand.

Whether you hate Toad or you love him, how can anyone NOT give him
credit for making the ref vs. observer vs. self-officiated debate one
of the hottest (if not the absolutely hottest) topics in the sport of
ultimate? He posts about it 700 times a day. He's been banned from
Google Groups TWICE, and all he's done is talk about it and try to
rile people up about it. There's no way to ignore it.

Why don't you get on Google and search through some old RSD posts from
like 5-7 years ago, back before Toad became a regular*? The topic of
officiating comes up every once in awhile but it's no more than a
hypothetical discussion for the academics. There's absolutely no way
we'd be seeing these experimental tournaments popping up without Toad
sparking debate. And there's no way the UPA would already be toying
with the idea of using active observers in the College Series. None.
Give the devil his due.

* Toad may bave been an RSD regular back in the 90s or very early 00s,
but I wouldn't know anything about that.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15061 is a reply to message #15058] Tue, 10 March 2009 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
throw
Messages: 743
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Daag....

That's not quite accurate...Look into it a little more....

Refs were discussed, pitched, argued in disc sport publications before
Toad started playing ultimate.

Later
Peter Mc
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15062 is a reply to message #15058] Tue, 10 March 2009 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
faddy
Messages: 310
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 10, 12:49 pm, Daag Alemayehu <daag.alemay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 10, 12:36 am, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't confuse the work and ideas of people who actually accomplish
> > stuff with anything to do with Toad.
>
> Here's what I don't understand.
>
> Whether you hate Toad or you love him, how can anyone NOT give him
> credit for making the ref vs. observer vs. self-officiated debate one
> of the hottest (if not the absolutely hottest) topics in the sport of
> ultimate?  He posts about it 700 times a day.  He's been banned from
> Google Groups TWICE, and all he's done is talk about it and try to
> rile people up about it.  There's no way to ignore it.
>
> Why don't you get on Google and search through some old RSD posts from
> like 5-7 years ago, back before Toad became a regular*?  The topic of
> officiating comes up every once in awhile but it's no more than a
> hypothetical discussion for the academics.  There's absolutely no way
> we'd be seeing these experimental tournaments popping up without Toad
> sparking debate.  And there's no way the UPA would already be toying
> with the idea of using active observers in the College Series.  None.
> Give the devil his due.
>
> * Toad may bave been an RSD regular back in the 90s or very early 00s,
> but I wouldn't know anything about that.

the squeaky wheel gets the grease? i agree and many of us have toad
to thank for getting this stuff pushed along, whether it be too slow
or fast for your tastes.
i say too slow and way too late, but it's all good. i can play and
watch ulty with 14 refs anytime i want. i want to play and watch it
with just a handful of them.
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15063 is a reply to message #15058] Tue, 10 March 2009 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
colinmcintyre
Messages: 1256
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 10, 12:49 pm, Daag Alemayehu <daag.alemay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 10, 12:36 am, Colin <colinmcint...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't confuse the work and ideas of people who actually accomplish
> > stuff with anything to do with Toad.
>
> Here's what I don't understand.
>
> Whether you hate Toad or you love him, how can anyone NOT give him
> credit for making the ref vs. observer vs. self-officiated debate one
> of the hottest (if not the absolutely hottest) topics in the sport of
> ultimate?  He posts about it 700 times a day.  He's been banned from
> Google Groups TWICE, and all he's done is talk about it and try to
> rile people up about it.  There's no way to ignore it.
>
> Why don't you get on Google and search through some old RSD posts from
> like 5-7 years ago, back before Toad became a regular*?  The topic of
> officiating comes up every once in awhile but it's no more than a
> hypothetical discussion for the academics.  There's absolutely no way
> we'd be seeing these experimental tournaments popping up without Toad
> sparking debate.  And there's no way the UPA would already be toying
> with the idea of using active observers in the College Series.  None.
> Give the devil his due.
>
> * Toad may bave been an RSD regular back in the 90s or very early 00s,
> but I wouldn't know anything about that.

There was a user who seemed to have similar views and demeanor to
Toad, but without all the typos a few years back. I forgot the name.
I agree Toad's pushed a lot of debate, but to credit him for more than
a small fraction of things actually being accomplished isn't justified
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15064 is a reply to message #15063] Tue, 10 March 2009 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob
Messages: 977
Registered: October 2008
Senior Member
Are we even certain toad got banned? Maybe he finally decided to clean
his garage and is currently trapped under a large pile of old
newspapers or unused NUA Refzerver uniforms. Can anyone check his
garage?

Rob
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15065 is a reply to message #15061] Tue, 10 March 2009 10:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
faddy
Messages: 310
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 10, 1:00 pm, i...@ThisIsUltimate.com wrote:
> Daag....
>
> That's not quite accurate...Look into it a little more....
>
> Refs were discussed, pitched, argued in disc sport publications before
> Toad started playing ultimate.
>
> Later
> Peter Mc

references?

I know there was a provision in the original rules for refs but that
was essentially squashed not terribly long after (perhaps due to the
New Games thingie).

So, TIU, why is it that there is a proliferation of experimentation as
of late if this has been such a hot topic for all these years?
Re: Censorship, RSD, and Toad [message #15067 is a reply to message #15064] Tue, 10 March 2009 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Jeff
Messages: 338
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Mar 10, 1:12�pm, Rob <r...@ultivillage.com> wrote:
> Are we even certain toad got banned? Maybe he finally decided to clean
> his garage and is currently trapped under a large pile of old
> newspapers or unused NUA Refzerver uniforms. Can anyone check his
> garage?
>
> Rob

for those of us who have emailed Toad off RSD and have checked his
email address against the group - he has been banned - go back to one
of his older posts get the email address and then try to do a search
upon it
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