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Ground contact related to the catch [message #138025] Sat, 30 November 2013 15:03 Go to next message
ultimate7
Messages: 154
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Anyone you see the rules Q&A in the newsletter?

Receiver catches in EZ running full speeding runs into teammate on 2nd step. Responder claims that it is a goal because receiver did not lose possession due to ground contact.

I disagree. I think steps until you can slow down are still ground contacts related to the catch and this catch didn't survive all ground contact related to the catch.

Exactly what defines ground contact related to the catch? When does "all ground contact related to the catch" end?
Re: Ground contact related to the catch [message #138026 is a reply to message #138025] Sat, 30 November 2013 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bigg_nate
Messages: 28
Registered: November 2011
Junior Member
I'm with you. I don't think this is a goal.

My reading of the response is that it doesn't even consider the "retains possession of the disc throughout all ground contact related to the catch" clause. The response examines II.O to correctly conclude that it's a catch, but it completely ignores the second half of XI.A.

I've never seen this come up in a game, but I've seen a similar situation a few times, most recently in the finals of Hopu: defender catches a D, then immediately runs into another defender and drops it. Both rules use the same "ground contact related to the catch" wording, and I've never seen anyone suggest that this should be a double-turn.

Thanks,
- Nate
Re: Ground contact related to the catch [message #138027 is a reply to message #138026] Sat, 30 November 2013 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
subzerounh
Messages: 3
Registered: August 2012
Location: New Hampshire
Junior Member
"ground contact" means hitting the ground with your body, like landing from a jump or landing from a layout. If you're running, you touch the end zone with your first foot, you're in. Whatever happens after that due to other people being in the way (whether teammate or opponent or random person walking through the field) is definitely nothing to do with ground contact, and the goal should absolutely be counted.

Don't see how this is a real dispute.
Re: Ground contact related to the catch [message #138032 is a reply to message #138025] Sun, 01 December 2013 04:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
On Saturday, November 30, 2013 6:03:12 PM UTC-5, ultimate7 wrote:
> Anyone you see the rules Q&A in the newsletter?

> Receiver catches in EZ running full speeding runs into teammate on 2nd step. Responder claims that it is a goal because receiver did not lose possession due to ground contact.

> I disagree. I think steps until you can slow down are still ground contacts related to the catch and this catch didn't survive all ground contact related to the catch.

> Exactly what defines ground contact related to the catch? When does "all ground contact related to the catch" end?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---you can release a pass prior to the third 'ground contact' to avoid a travel call when fast breaking/giving and going....these ground contacts refer, normally, to your feet while running or otherwise advancing.

'ground contact' while diving to the ground or falling to the ground....refers to a receivers collision with the ground that may jar the disc free from their grasp.

funny that those two exact phrases....haven't been defined as separate(or perhaps they have been?) in the rules.

ground contact related to the catch, referring to collision with the ground, falling or diving or landing on the ground.......ends when you stop sliding, rolling or recover from the THUD and can demonstrate that you're still holding the disc.

ground contact related to the opportunity to release the disc to avoid a travel during a give and go type, fast break, quick release throw....ends when you've touched the ground with your third step after catching the disc.


in the situation above........maybe that's a STRIP in the endzone.....goal?????????

or....perhaps it's a turnover....because the receiver failed to maintain control of the non spinning disc????

full speed, is pretty fast.......and to run into someone and drop the disc on the second step of a full speed sprint is pretty quick, and most likely negates the possibility of there having been SUSTAINED CONTACT with the non-spinning disc.

was there SUSTAINED contact with the non spinning disc....or was their brief, momentary, fleeting, instant contact with the non-spinning disc?

show us the video in full speed so we can determine if there was SUSTAINED contact.....
sustained contact....continuing for an extended period or without interruption.
seems like there was some interruption.....

turn over.....unless there's a teammate strip rule out there somewhere....
Re: Ground contact related to the catch [message #138033 is a reply to message #138027] Sun, 01 December 2013 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ultimate7
Messages: 154
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Ground Contact is defined in the rules:

Ground contact: All player contact with the ground directly related to a specific event or maneuver (e.g., jumping, diving, leaning or falling), including landing or recovering after being off-balance. Items on the ground are considered part of the ground.

I don't think there is any questions that your foot step is ground contact it is still a question of exactly what "throughout all ground contact related to the catch" means.

I still think for a full speed catch that would include multiple steps to slow down.

For Mike G. strip only occurs when the other team is involved.
Re: Ground contact related to the catch [message #138034 is a reply to message #138033] Sun, 01 December 2013 13:10 Go to previous message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
> I still think for a full speed catch that would include multiple steps to slow down.
~~~~~~

--i don't necessarily think that 'multiple steps to slow down' are part of "was it a catch/goal".....
however....it seems like a turnover/drop....since....it was dropped.
there was no SUSTAINED contact with the non-spinning disc.
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