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Nationals bracket format [message #136707] Fri, 18 October 2013 12:47 Go to next message
Jed
Messages: 175
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Curious how it's determined which teams are in the running for Pro Flight, and which are in the 13th place bracket. Seems weird that Florida United is still in the running at 0-4, while Truck stop is out despite having won a game on Thursday (and coming 3rd in their pool). The other three teams down with Truck are 0-4.

The mixed division seems to have it the same way - three 0-4 teams, and then Ambiguously Grey (1-3); whereas 0-4 Cahoots is up in the Pro Flight bracket.

Is it just wrong on Score Reporter?
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136708 is a reply to message #136707] Fri, 18 October 2013 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
josh[1]
Messages: 71
Registered: October 2009
Member
Regular season rankings - http://www.usaultimate.org/news/club-rankings-men-end-of-201 3-regular-season/
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136714 is a reply to message #136707] Fri, 18 October 2013 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seanc
Messages: 322
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Friday, October 18, 2013 12:48:03 PM UTC-7, Jed wrote:
> Curious how it's determined which teams are in the running
>
> for Pro Flight, and which are in the 13th place bracket.
>
> Seems weird that Florida United is still in the running at
>
> 0-4, while Truck stop is out despite having won a game on
>
> Thursday (and coming 3rd in their pool). The other three
>
> teams down with Truck are 0-4.
>
>
>
> The mixed division seems to have it the same way - three 0-4
>
> teams, and then Ambiguously Grey (1-3); whereas 0-4 Cahoots
>
> is up in the Pro Flight bracket.
>
>
>
> Is it just wrong on Score Reporter?
>
> --
>
> Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com

had this same question. i know they want the regular season to have meaning, but it's wrong to have florida united lose every game at nationals and come in 12th, whereas truck stop beat them, won two games, lost to chain by one point, and comes in 15th. it's an interesting format for the top eight teams, but breaks down for the lower seeds. not crazy about it and i hope it gets changed for 2014. would have liked to see how florida fared against furious and the condors.

sean
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136715 is a reply to message #136714] Fri, 18 October 2013 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seanc
Messages: 322
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
On Friday, October 18, 2013 7:42:06 PM UTC-7, discjonz wrote:
> On Friday, October 18, 2013 12:48:03 PM UTC-7, Jed wrote:
>
> > Curious how it's determined which teams are in the running
>
> >
>
> > for Pro Flight, and which are in the 13th place bracket.
>
> >
>
> > Seems weird that Florida United is still in the running at
>
> >
>
> > 0-4, while Truck stop is out despite having won a game on
>
> >
>
> > Thursday (and coming 3rd in their pool). The other three
>
> >
>
> > teams down with Truck are 0-4.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The mixed division seems to have it the same way - three 0-4
>
> >
>
> > teams, and then Ambiguously Grey (1-3); whereas 0-4 Cahoots
>
> >
>
> > is up in the Pro Flight bracket.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Is it just wrong on Score Reporter?
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> >
>
> > Posted from http://www.rsdnospam.com
>
>
>
> had this same question. i know they want the regular season to have meaning, but it's wrong to have florida united lose every game at nationals and come in 12th, whereas truck stop beat them, won two games, lost to chain by one point, and comes in 15th. it's an interesting format for the top eight teams, but breaks down for the lower seeds. not crazy about it and i hope it gets changed for 2014. would have liked to see how florida fared against furious and the condors.
>
>
>
> sean

however, it's absolutely awesome that teams are playing out every game and not forfeiting the lower placement games as has happened occasionally in the past. that shit's just lame.

sean
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136804 is a reply to message #136715] Mon, 21 October 2013 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
seanc
Messages: 322
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
did goat and chain lightning play out the 7/8 place game (10:30 saturday)? the outcome's not listed on score reporter and i believe they both make it into the pro flight, so there might not be a lot of incentive to play the game.

also... seriously, truck stop must be pissed: the team they beat lost every game and still finishes three spots ahead of them (florida united takes 12th on the strength of no wins. truck ends up at 15th with two wins, including pool play over florida). not a fan.

sean
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136806 is a reply to message #136804] Mon, 21 October 2013 23:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazan
Messages: 207
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Also, don't forget that this means more than just bragging rights -- Florida gets to be in Pro Flight next season, with all the perks thereof, but Truck Stop does not.

The tournament was exceptionally well run and a blast to be at and play in. Of course, I do think most people would agree that given what happened re: Truck/Florida, the decision format for final tourney placement was perhaps not as good in practice as it was in theory. Beating a team should equal beating a team, after all.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136810 is a reply to message #136806] Tue, 22 October 2013 05:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
josh[1]
Messages: 71
Registered: October 2009
Member
Pro Flight = top 8. Neither the unified FL squad nor the players formerly known as Glory Hole will have that distinction. Both will be Elite.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136825 is a reply to message #136806] Tue, 22 October 2013 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dusty
Messages: 159
Registered: November 2008
Senior Member
On Tuesday, October 22, 2013 2:34:35 AM UTC-4, eric....@gmail.com wrote:
> Also, don't forget that this means more than just bragging rights -- Florida gets to be in Pro Flight next season, with all the perks thereof, but Truck Stop does not.
>
>
>
> The tournament was exceptionally well run and a blast to be at and play in. Of course, I do think most people would agree that given what happened re: Truck/Florida, the decision format for final tourney placement was perhaps not as good in practice as it was in theory. Beating a team should equal beating a team, after all.

Yup. A tournament should be a self-contained event. pre-determined outcomes lead to obviously ridiculous results. Thanks to Truck for providing a test case. You guys enjoying your thanks-for-coming prize and the satisfaction that comes with proving something absurd?

other nationals observations from a spectator:

1. that was a MIDDLE SCHOOL stadium that easily held finals.
Everyone not from Texas now begins to understand what Texas HS football is about.

2. 100% of finals were capped.
4/15 women's elimination games were capped. 7/15 coed elimination games were capped. 10/15 men's elimination games were capped. the more men are on the field, the more likely the game is capped? The rounds are NOT long enough (and the multiple countdowns on the clock are confusing) Are club games playing to 15 or to time? 2/3rds of the "showcase aka men's division" (based on the timing of semis at least) ended before the assigned number of points. Half is predicated on the number of points it takes to win. If we're playing to 13, we take half at 7, not 8.

3. speaking of slow...
i repeat my observation from last year's nationals: the current call-resolution system is too slow for spectators. If there are 2000 folks sitting in the stands who can more often than not tell what happened on the play, yet have to watch a drawn-out resolution process in which they can't tell what is happening (could we get a card w/ an explanation of the observer hand signals? even the announcer was getting them wrong!)... that is not so good. the pace of the game is killed by these breaks. Ultimate has an excellent natural rhythm. Extended call resolution makes it like baseball. I don't give a damn what the system is-- it just needs to be quick.

4. Give the observers whistles.
Watching meaningless plays go on when the disc is essentially dead is not only a waste of time, but a pointless injury risk. When play stops, play should stop as quickly as possible. This is what whistles are good for.

5. Stop calling so many picks, players.
This is a sport. I know that's what the rules say. Many of you are totally abusing this rule. Many of you are calling picks when, if you just moved to recover and accepted that some contact will occur when that many folks are moving around on the field together, the outcomes of play would not be meaningfully affected. I know the rules. I know it is in there. You don't have to call it.

6. Stop calling ticky-tack marking contact.
You could use "contact" or "disc space" if you like. You could also just play. I know what the rules say. I also know what I want to watch when I'm a paying spectator.

7. is it true the observer/player interactions were audible for the home viewers?
if so, is the goal to make ultimate more fun to watch at home than in-stadium? In my opinion, put mics on all observers and let the fans at the game participate in heckling all onfield behaviour, not just plays. IF spirit and conflict resolution are part of the game AND I'm a PAYING SPECTATOR, enable me to experience the whole game.

8. Similarly, announcers should announce the players making the call.
As well as what the call is and whether the call is contested or not, or if the observer overrides the call. We should also track how many and what type of calls each player makes. Which players are constantly making calls which are overturned? IF this is part of the game, it is data that fans should have.

9. My USAU membership doesn't get me in any days for free?
It doesn't give me an entrance discount? I can't buy a whole-event pass regardless of being a member? But I could watch near-all of these games from just outside the fields? Interesting. I really have no idea what my USAU membership is good for other than overly-sanctioned under-amenitied tournaments and a magazine that the USAU doesn't believe should be a magazine in the first place.

10. This no-alcohol site thing is a mistake.
It is only a matter of time before a whole team gets kicked out or arrested.. Not to blow up anyone's spot, but the stands were FULL of booze. It is going to happen no matter the regulations unless you search all bags&pockets and empty all beverages. Then it will happen in the parking lot. Unless you search all cars at the gate. Then it will happen at the hotels. Pick a spot where we're not leading players into temptation, please. 'specially when there are two full days of play in which half of the teams are eliminated. It is fun to watch sports and drink outside on nice days. It is not fun to have your season end and face the choice of being allowed to finally let loose OR go watch the rest of the tournament. If USAU means to take a philosophical stand against drinking in the first place, fine. But I doubt that's the intent here. And if that is the intent, gimme my money back you petty tyrants, and heed the gang of four's advice: "Save me from the people who would save me from myself / they got muscle for brains" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTzpOBMtkTs)

11. if you're not in the endzone and you spike the disc, that's a turn.
(see women's final) i don't give a damn what the observers signal or don't signal or how many different things they signal. if there is some bit of the observer-related-rules which tells me that observer error means you can spike the disc with impunity, I'll be wrong though remain unconvinced. Spikes are not a required part of the game. You take the risk upon yourself by spiking. (Totally not anti-spike. jus' sayin')

12. players standing still after fouls/stoppages is totally unnecessary.
we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that putting a player in a stationary position determined by where they were when they were previously moving is even a rough equivalent of continuing play as if the infraction had not occurred. a player's position is only one data point. if we could find a way to recreate the speed/acceleration/angle/vision of the players, then sure. But we can't even do speed and location. Just let them move. What's the downside? (Honest question for which I've failed to come up with an answer)

13. New format is not all bad.
Mostly just different. However, the thing where games start at 9am and those same teams play at 6pm (see coed) is absurd. So too is having the men's teams start at 1:30 on day 1, have their last round start at 6pm and then have half of the round of 16 play at 9:30 the next day. Offset by divisions or whatever, but the goals should be consistency of schedule and maximum rest, right? Rested players are healthy players. Healthy players play at the top of their game.

14. If you can't cuss in English, you shouldn't be allowed to cuss in any language.
This is obviously impossible to enforce. Why should French-Canadians have an advantage in release of frustration in a tournament in Texas? If you can't cuss at yourself while playing sports, my assumption is that you're in high school. If you can't say X number of words, those words need to be pre-defined. Can I say "dick" but not "fuck"? Can I say "irredeemable waste of life and breath. I hope you die soon so there is more air, water and food for the rest of us." but not "asshat"? Can I say "butthole" but not "asshole"? What if I walk around yelling "penis penis, urine urine, excrement excrement"? Reasonable people may disagree, but censorship of professional-level athletes is generally limited to press conferences and appearances and the like. Go to an NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL game. NOT edited on-field. Or are we still on this thing where we think we're better than freely using language like free (wo)men in a free country? What if I drop a water jug on my toe on the sideline and yell an obscenity? Or I stub my toe on a lightpost? PMF? What if I get punched by my opponent and yell "What the fuck"? Or if I get laid out into well after catching the disc and call the guy a "reckless asshole"? What if I go down with a season-ending injury? What if I break my femur or dislocate my elbow or lose a few teeth? Not a single player I asked could answer these questions. The observers who I remembered to ask refused to clarify and did not seem amused. Speaking of hearing the players.... If I can't hear anything they say from the stands, even when I want to hear them discussing the play, why does it matter if they cuss?

15. Why is Drag'n Thrust okay but not Ambiguously Grey?
How is Ambiguous Grey any better? It is just as ambiguous and just as grey.. It references something on network TV fer crissakes. What if they change it to Ambiguous Gray? Or Ambiguous grAy? Or Ambiguously Totally-Not-Gay? I'm pretty sure it's a good thing I was never on a team with a questionable name...Just a big ol' phallus running down one side of our jerseys. I would not have been as reasonable as the other teams you've asked to change names, even though I would have hated having the name in the first place.

16. Why did some of the PBR unis in finals not have matching number-fonts yet in the past non-matching jerseys of this level (Hi Bashing Pinatas!) were made to change?

17. How were Phoenix's red-on-dark-grey tanks acceptable?
The numbers were illegible from 20yds.

18. Changing turf to grass and back, though relatively minor, should be avoided.

19. Please have better food vendors on-site.
I love $3 homophobic chik-fil-a in spite of myself, but we only got that one day! A lot of folks don't like bad hot dogs, reheated pizza and cheap nachos without beer.

20. Everything is cheaper in TX save liquor.

21. The wind was not worth noting until Sunday.
On Sunday it was increasingly windy on the field, but not at all in the stands. It was also weird swirly wind. Perhaps related to the man-made hill on which the open-ended stadium sat? I don't know what the wind was like in the 3rd-place stadium.

22. The replays were AWESOME.
Had a great moment during Scandal v Riot when a fellow spectator said "I wish I could see a replay!" and I said "turn to your left." There was Allison Maddux being ridiculous for all to see again.

23. The USAU calender in the player packs doesn't have any dates noted.
It is just a magnetic calender that you can't write on. Why no announcement of when the important tourneys/series and the like are?

Keep it growing USAU. Keep taking on the challenges. I truly can't find the logic in some of the moves being made and stances being taken, but I'm not privy to all the info and there are some improvements that would never have happened without your work. That said... you're no longer catering to my interests as an infrequent player and frequent spectator. It is near-certain that unless the one team that might convince me to play masters succeeds in doing so that I will not be renewing my membership. Oh wait, you don't read this. Nor do you respond to my tweets asking what an "alumni" is or how I become one.

Ohwell.

(my opinions are my own and represent no other entities living, dead or otherwise.)

music on tap: janelle monae, the electric lady

dusty.rhodes
at gmail.com
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136828 is a reply to message #136825] Tue, 22 October 2013 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EuhNGroups
Messages: 1020
Registered: August 2011
Senior Member
dusty wrote on Tue, 22 October 2013 13:51



14. If you can't cuss in English, you shouldn't be allowed to cuss in any language.
This is obviously impossible to enforce. Why should French-Canadians have an advantage in release of frustration in a tournament in Texas?



French canadians swear using church related words (mostly pieces of furniture)...so it not like anyone would be offended by hearing it.



Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136831 is a reply to message #136825] Tue, 22 October 2013 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ultimate7
Messages: 154
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Why did all teams need white shirts if it was OK to play red vs. black in the open finals?
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136836 is a reply to message #136825] Wed, 23 October 2013 03:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
> 3. speaking of slow...
>
> i repeat my observation from last year's nationals: the current call-resolution system is too slow for spectators. If there are 2000 folks sitting in the stands who can more often than not tell what happened on the play, yet have to watch a drawn-out resolution process in which they can't tell what is happening (could we get a card w/ an explanation of the observer hand signals? even the announcer was getting them wrong!)... that is not so good. the pace of the game is killed by these breaks. Ultimate has an excellent natural rhythm. Extended call resolution makes it like baseball. I don't give a damn what the system is-- it just needs to be quick.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



---they ought to hire UOA Officials.....or have the UOA train their officials.

UOA officials would solve all these 'officiating' troubles.

it's the fact, jack.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136837 is a reply to message #136825] Wed, 23 October 2013 03:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
>
> 4. Give the observers whistles.
>
> Watching meaningless plays go on when the disc is essentially dead is not only a waste of time, but a pointless injury risk. When play stops, play should stop as quickly as possible. This is what whistles are good for.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---UOA officials have long utilized the communication device known as.....whistles.
they're splendid for stopping and restarting play.....
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136842 is a reply to message #136836] Wed, 23 October 2013 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EuhNGroups
Messages: 1020
Registered: August 2011
Senior Member
anakin gerics wrote on Wed, 23 October 2013 03:44
>

---they ought to hire UOA Officials.....or have the UOA train their officials.

UOA officials would solve all these 'officiating' troubles.



I fully agree, please support the Unexisting Official Association
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136846 is a reply to message #136842] Wed, 23 October 2013 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Knappy
Messages: 830
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member
Dusty, very entertaining read. Congrats to Amy & Scandal.

#10 This no-alcohol site thing is a mistake.

This goes for the MLU, AUDL, too. No alcohol, less spectators.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136848 is a reply to message #136825] Wed, 23 October 2013 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T H
Messages: 1142
Registered: July 2009
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Senior Member
dusty wrote on Tue, 22 October 2013 16:51


10. This no-alcohol site thing is a mistake.
It is only a matter of time before a whole team gets kicked out or arrested.. Not to blow up anyone's spot, but the stands were FULL of booze. It is going to happen no matter the regulations unless you search all bags&pockets and empty all beverages. Then it will happen in the parking lot. Unless you search all cars at the gate. Then it will happen at the hotels. Pick a spot where we're not leading players into temptation, please. 'specially when there are two full days of play in which half of the teams are eliminated. It is fun to watch sports and drink outside on nice days. It is not fun to have your season end and face the choice of being allowed to finally let loose OR go watch the rest of the tournament. If USAU means to take a philosophical stand against drinking in the first place, fine. But I doubt that's the intent here. And if that is the intent, gimme my money back you petty tyrants, and heed the gang of four's advice: "Save me from the people who would save me from myself / they got muscle for brains" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTzpOBMtkTs)


Pretty sure Savage tweeted a picture of a cooler full of beer during the tournament.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136852 is a reply to message #136842] Wed, 23 October 2013 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
> > ---they ought to hire UOA Officials.....or have the UOA
> > train their officials.
> > UOA officials would solve all these 'officiating'
> > troubles.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> I fully agree, please support the Unexisting Official
> Association




---the UOA, regardless if we ever host another event.....we set a very high standard of officiating.
with UOA officials....coaches, players, fans, families and first time watchers....loved our games.

ask around...the UOA set a high standard of officiating.....
we make ultimate the way that every ultimate player wishes it was all the time.

UOA ultimate....the way ultimate should be.

UOA....high standard of officiating...high standard of player expectation....the most watchable enjoyable ultimate that there's ever been.

ask around....
or if you're a ding dong like euh, just keep being a dumbass.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136855 is a reply to message #136852] Wed, 23 October 2013 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EuhNGroups
Messages: 1020
Registered: August 2011
Senior Member
anakin gerics wrote on Wed, 23 October 2013 13:07

---the UOA, regardless if we ever host another event.....



Is that a hint of resignation ?


Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136857 is a reply to message #136855] Wed, 23 October 2013 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Marput
Messages: 992
Registered: June 2010
Location: Columbia Missouri
Senior Member
factoid : train wrecks eventually come to a halt
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136864 is a reply to message #136707] Wed, 23 October 2013 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logan Pendragon
Messages: 1
Registered: October 2013
Junior Member
Dusty,

Interesting thoughts. I'm thinking about them.

One of these I'd like to take a swing at answering. Your point (12) on allowing players to move after a foul actually would change significantly the outcome of points. If players are allowed to move, then it gives an advantage to the offending team every time, assuming they get to keep possession. Because players would always have an opportunity to reposition and often "catch up" when a foul happens further down the field and often some players are still catching up to offensive positions.

This would happen regardless if the call was made by the offending team or defending team, therefore making it even more imbalanced. It would also motivate players no not call for disc space or contact, rather than fouls, because the advantage to always let your players catch up before the disc is authorized again, and the stall count restart would be big. Players shouldn't do this, and while continuing to educate players to follow them is the way to go, no need to be naive that some players just wont. Giving more gaps for them to explore would be inadvisable.

Keep in mind that players don't really have to return to exact prior locations. Just positions where players on both teams can approximately agree they were standing at and be comfortable.

Cheers,
Paolo (from Brazil)
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136872 is a reply to message #136855] Thu, 24 October 2013 07:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 5:09:02 PM UTC-4, Euh wrote:
> anakin gerics wrote on Wed, 23 October 2013 13:07
>
> > ---the UOA, regardless if we ever host another
>
> > event.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Is that a hint of resignation ?
~~~~~~~~~~


--no hint about anything.
but i could die tomorrow....
and....another door could open at any time.
the UOA working...is good for all of ultimate...because we do great work....and make the game the best it can be.
what's your trouble with that?....
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136874 is a reply to message #136857] Thu, 24 October 2013 07:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 7:36:03 PM UTC-4, Lance Marput wrote:
> factoid : train wrecks eventually come to a halt
~~~~~~~

---the UOA was never a train wreck.
when folks rode by to watch or participate....they only saw wonderful beauty.
ask around....rather than simply being a dumbfuck.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136875 is a reply to message #136707] Thu, 24 October 2013 07:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Marput
Messages: 992
Registered: June 2010
Location: Columbia Missouri
Senior Member
i'm talking about the entire UOA pdxn michael.

UOA marketing & professionalism,etc.

Peter Mc
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136878 is a reply to message #136875] Thu, 24 October 2013 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EuhNGroups
Messages: 1020
Registered: August 2011
Senior Member
Lance Marput wrote on Thu, 24 October 2013 07:17
i'm talking about the entire UOA pdxn michael.

UOA marketing & professionalism,etc.

Peter Mc


You're quick at unplugging the patient from life support.
I suspect that you're eager to have all the UOA stuff enter your museum



Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136880 is a reply to message #136875] Thu, 24 October 2013 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:18:03 AM UTC-4, Lance Marput wrote:
> i'm talking about the entire UOA pdxn michael.
>

> UOA marketing & professionalism,etc.
~~~~~~~


---the UOA never dealt with you...so you don't know.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136881 is a reply to message #136707] Thu, 24 October 2013 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Marput
Messages: 992
Registered: June 2010
Location: Columbia Missouri
Senior Member
michael,

If you were more professional I would have hired UOA trained folks long ago and possibly have been one of your most loyal lieutenants.

Back in 1983 (Clayton Mo, Gay field, Purple Haze ultimate)I was of the opinion that "when the sport is ready for officiation they'll bring in pros for consulting."

30 years later and YOU think you are the sports' leader in officiation.

As the kids say..."fail"

Peter Mc
MDSC
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136883 is a reply to message #136707] Thu, 24 October 2013 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
> If you were more professional I would have hired UOA trained
> folks long ago and possibly have been one of your most loyal
> lieutenants.



--to collect flyers off light poles around town?
to stumble around town on bicycles with you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Back in 1983 (Clayton Mo, Gay field, Purple Haze ultimate)I
> was of the opinion that "when the sport is ready for
> officiation they'll bring in pros for consulting."



---the only REAL Purple Haze....is NYU.
WUFF Campers!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 30 years later and YOU think you are the sports' leader in
> officiation.



---well....the upa flew me the UOA to the HQ to teach them how to observe....and we taught them the proper mechanics.....and i wrote the book on the Two Observer System....and am the best ultimate official on the planet, bar none.
so i feel pretty good.
and since YOU have no idea.....then why try to say otherwise, when all ya have to do.....is ask around.
~~~~~~~~~~~
> As the kids say..."fail"


---yes, but regrettably, for you.....they're talkin'.....to you.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136884 is a reply to message #136883] Thu, 24 October 2013 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Marput
Messages: 992
Registered: June 2010
Location: Columbia Missouri
Senior Member
and this is the UOA drownin'...not waving.

later bub
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136886 is a reply to message #136884] Thu, 24 October 2013 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:07:03 PM UTC-4, Lance Marput wrote:
> and this is the UOA drownin'...not waving.
~~~~~~

---naw...this is the UOA saying we're the best officials with the best officiating methods on the planet....
you know that we are.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136890 is a reply to message #136886] Thu, 24 October 2013 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EuhNGroups
Messages: 1020
Registered: August 2011
Senior Member
anakin gerics wrote on Thu, 24 October 2013 11:13
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 1:07:03 PM UTC-4, Lance Marput wrote:
> and this is the UOA drownin'...not waving.
~~~~~~

---naw...this is the UOA saying we're the best officials with the best officiating methods on the planet....
you know that we are.


I fully agree, support the Unemployed Officials Association.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136891 is a reply to message #136890] Thu, 24 October 2013 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anakin gerics
Messages: 1362
Registered: November 2009
Senior Member
> I fully agree, support the Unemployed Officials Association.
~~~~~~~~~

---not asking for support.
we know we're best for the sport....and so do you.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136892 is a reply to message #136891] Thu, 24 October 2013 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bobus
Messages: 305
Registered: September 2008
Senior Member

It's clear no one wants to be affiliated with the UOA because of Mike's abrasiveness. The poor guy strangled his own baby in the cradle.

But, from everything I've heard, he's created the best observer system out there. So why throw the baby out with the bathwater - the USAU should adopt the UOA's best practices and move on.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136895 is a reply to message #136892] Thu, 24 October 2013 22:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justheretoirritateyou
Messages: 48
Registered: December 2008
Member
Bobus wrote on Thu, 24 October 2013 21:55

It's clear no one wants to be affiliated with the UOA because of Mike's abrasiveness. The poor guy strangled his own baby in the cradle.

But, from everything I've heard, he's created the best observer system out there. So why throw the baby out with the bathwater - the USAU should adopt the UOA's best practices and move on.


This thread is now about dead babies. Come one, come all.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136896 is a reply to message #136891] Fri, 25 October 2013 03:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mike gerics[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: June 2013
Senior Member
> It's clear no one wants to be affiliated with the UOA
> because of Mike's abrasiveness.


---well....you few nerds on rsd.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> But, from everything I've heard, he's created the best
> observer system out there. So why throw the baby out with
> the bathwater - the USAU should adopt the UOA's best
> practices and move on.


---the UOA gave them much of what we do.....but they screwed that up also....
they're mechanics are poor....
they're sloppy
they don't train their 'observers' well.
they want nerds rather than officials.
they want hands off...when clearly hands on, is what the sport wants and needs....and is what the players ask for.

the best UOA practices....is its top officials teaching and working....and our sweet well run super organized tournaments.

ask around...those we've dealt with....don't feel the burn of that abrasiveness!
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136897 is a reply to message #136707] Fri, 25 October 2013 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mike gerics[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: June 2013
Senior Member
On Friday, October 25, 2013 1:02:03 AM UTC-4, justheretoirritateyou wrote:

> This thread is now about dead babies. Come one, come all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


---you probably did....but dead babies don't do that for me.

it was probably the greatness of the UOA that made you.....
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136898 is a reply to message #136707] Fri, 25 October 2013 06:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Marput
Messages: 992
Registered: June 2010
Location: Columbia Missouri
Senior Member
mike,

ever consider officiating some of the fantasy ultimate events?

Peter Mc
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136899 is a reply to message #136898] Fri, 25 October 2013 07:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mike gerics[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: June 2013
Senior Member
> ever consider officiating some of the fantasy ultimate
> events?
~~~~~~~~

--nope...i've always considered fantasy ultimate to be a lot like you....nerdy, useless and stupid.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136901 is a reply to message #136864] Fri, 25 October 2013 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dusty
Messages: 159
Registered: November 2008
Senior Member
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 6:44:50 AM UTC-4, Paolo Chiappin wrote:
> Dusty,
>
> Interesting thoughts. I'm thinking about them.

Happy to inspire thought!

> One of these I'd like to take a swing at answering. Your
> point (12) on allowing players to move after a foul actually
> would change significantly the outcome of points. If players
> are allowed to move, then it gives an advantage to the
> offending team every time, assuming they get to keep
> possession. Because players would always have an opportunity
> to reposition and often "catch up" when a foul happens
> further down the field and often some players are still
> catching up to offensive positions.

I disagree with your underlying assumption that having more players in front of the disc is an offensive advantage. More offensive players = more defensive players. More defensive players = less space to throw into. Fewer players total in a given area = more space to throw into. Think of it this way-- does it generally take more throws to score 7v7 from 5yds out or 2v2 from 5yds out?

Regardless, you are discounting another aspect: The defense can move too. The defense can change its set. The defense can reset mentally and take stock of the situation and adjust their calls. Are our defenses currently ready to do this? Nope. But the offense isn't currently ready to take advantage of this either.

I could posit the argument that the the non-stoppage is actually in favor of the defense, because there will be more defenders in front of the disc... but that assumes that the offense will move all of its players in front of the disc. Which, as above, I feel is an error in the first place. (Hi Mr. Frank H!)

> This would happen regardless if the call was made by the
> offending team or defending team, therefore making it even
> more imbalanced. It would also motivate players no not call
> for disc space or contact, rather than fouls, because the
> advantage to always let your players catch up before the
> disc is authorized again, and the stall count restart would
> be big. Players shouldn't do this, and while continuing to
> educate players to follow them is the way to go, no need to
> be naive that some players just wont. Giving more gaps for
> them to explore would be inadvisable.

Players who do not play defense are not of any concern to me. If they don't play D, they'll get beat on the field or cut before they make the team. It is important to get your hands up on defense on basketball. Not everyone does. Doesn't mean we change the rules to make "lazy" the only legal type of defense. So I fundamentally disagree here. There is a learning curve for every rule change-- (some folks are still using the old pick rules!) this should not prevent the rules from changing.

> Keep in mind that players don't really have to return to
> exact prior locations. Just positions where players on both
> teams can approximately agree they were standing at and be
> comfortable.

Sure, but this seems irrelevant to me.

To put it another way:

If we can all move, we're playing a sport. All advantages gained or lost are due to the movements allowed within the context of the actions w/in the sport. If we are standing still, we are specifically not-making sport-related movements. Any advantages gained are gained in a wholly different (static) context than those in which the rest of the game is played.

If, as a result of a defensive foul, the offense is in a worse position (but with a reset stall count)...
If, as a result of an offensive foul, the defense is in a worse position (but with a higher stall count)...

.... Why not let them move and countermove? This happens all the time when a pull goes OB. All players can move. The disc is not in play. We don't seem to have a problem with this. So too with a turnover. So too with a player who runs into the endzone or off the field. So too with a disc that rolls OB. Why do we choose "foul/violation" as a situation in which we stop all athletic movement?

The reasons most often given are "Because those are the rules". But *why* do the rules say that? Any rules historians still read this thing? Not sure any other sport (women's lacrosse?) has this...

> Cheers,
>
> Paolo (from Brazil)

Cheers indeed!

music on tap: beau brummels, bradley's barn

dusty.rhodes
at gmail.com
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136902 is a reply to message #136901] Fri, 25 October 2013 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mike gerics[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: June 2013
Senior Member
> The reasons most often given are "Because those are the rules". But *why* do the rules say that? Any rules historians still read this thing?

~~~~~~~~~~~~


---sounds like the idiotic reason for the ground tap?
it's in the rules....but there's no reason for it.
still no one has given a GOOD, REAL reason for it.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136903 is a reply to message #136825] Fri, 25 October 2013 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mike gerics[1]
Messages: 174
Registered: June 2013
Senior Member
> 6. Stop calling ticky-tack marking contact.
>
> You could use "contact" or "disc space" if you like. You could also just play. I know what the rules say. I also know what I want to watch when I'm a paying spectator.
~~~~~~~~~


---second DUMBEST rule in the sport.
it, along with the ground tap...are helping to make ultimate more and more goofy.

abolish that useless ground tap.....and the equally useless 'contact'.....
damn that contact rule is dumb.
Re: Nationals bracket format [message #136913 is a reply to message #136903] Fri, 25 October 2013 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
alansmith175
Messages: 41
Registered: December 2008
Member
Dusty:

I think point 7 of your list explains point 14. That said, the existence and/or necessity of both points is somewhat annoying.
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